I do not belong in this forum!

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Lance Coleman
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I do not belong in this forum!

Post by Lance Coleman » Wed Dec 09, 2009 8:10 pm

BUT! I promised tradrag I would do a build along of the lyman great plains rifle kit I won in the giveaway.

Well tradrag.com gave it away. I got it !! And I put it together. After I sent bryan a few dead deer pics with it he told me I was about to getta whippin if I aint post some pics of how I made it look that way so here we go.

First things first. This is a lyman great plains 54 caliber percussion rifle KIT. That pretty comes in a kit form that your 9yr old can put together. So never ever think it's over your head. The absolute only issue I had with this kit was a wrong tang bolt nut in the stock which Lyman graciously replaced no charge no questions asked. Got it quick as well.

OK second things second.... anyone who knows me, saw the knives I make, or washed my holy underwear and socks KNOW I'm not much on shiny new things. I like antique and relic looking stuff. Now there's a difference. The line between antique and just dang old is a big one. I don't want beat up, banged and hideous. I want ancient, yet well maintained.

So with that said blackening, blueing, and for the time being even browning, are out of the question for the barrel. So whatcha do?? I tell ya whatcha do! Ya ask Captchee. You get several home remedies and agents available in yer grocery store, hardware store or kitchen and ya get after it!

And I actually did several different one. I tried onions, OK but not enough, switched to onions and vinegar, aint give it enough time so again not enough contrast. Then I went to good ol clorox bleach. Yup! just like ya wash ya clothes with.

So here's what I did......
It's not what you do............ It's how you do it.

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Lance Coleman
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Re: I do not belong in this forum!

Post by Lance Coleman » Wed Dec 09, 2009 8:21 pm

I wrapped the barrel, tang and even furniture up in yarn I bought from Walmart. And hung it from a wire in the cieling. At this point I feel it's very neccessary to say one important step. BLEACH is highly corrosive. so plug the end of your barrel with something and plug your nipple area with something as well. we want to age and corrode a bit off the OUTSIDE of the barrel. we want the BORE pristine and perfect. You get bleach down it?? it will not be pristine and perfect.

OK Once hung from the cieling I literally poured bleach (yea straight bleach) all over the barrel ensuring the yarn got very very soaked. Now keep in mind the floor of my shop is concrete and a pig sty so I aint worried about the floor. If you in mammas kitchen?? I highly suggest you go OUTSIDE. I come back about every 2 hours and checked. if it looked sort of dry?? I poured it on it again. I repeated pouring bleach on the barrel 4 times with 1.5-2 hours in between pours.

Heres a pic of the barrel all wrapped up after I took it down after the bleaching.
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And here's a pic after the wrapping has been removed. Now don't freek but sometimes the bleach just deteriorates the yarn depending on what type ya got. it's OK. It did what we wanted it to do. it kept bleach on certain areas longer than others and kept air away from certain areas longer than others.
Image
pretty cool huh?

OK so this is what it looked like after it dried....
Image
It's not what you do............ It's how you do it.

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Lance Coleman
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Re: I do not belong in this forum!

Post by Lance Coleman » Wed Dec 09, 2009 8:27 pm

YEA!! really cool!! But I didn't really think that at the time. I sort of thought it looked way way too stark and defined.

So this is the part where Captchee told me he should have just shot me right there. Because if I would have gently carded this under cool water I could have kept this effect. Which on one side would have been really cool. But on the other side would have went in a different direction than what I was heading with the gun.

So here's what I did. I grabbed a bottle of 3in 1 house oil and a piece of 0000 fine steel wool and started buffing the barrel with the wool using the oil as a lube. OK what I really did was pour oil all over it and rub it with the steel wool. And this is what we came out with.
Image
A nice aged gently sweeping patina that is going to give the rifle that "daddy took good care of me but I been through the woods a few times." look.


Next up?? the stock!
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Re: I do not belong in this forum!

Post by jcporter@work » Thu Dec 10, 2009 7:43 am

I was so impressed with the way the metal looks, I'm using it on the one I'm building now. Can't wait to get back from Tenn. so I can get to work on the stock. Great looking rifle by the way. I'm impressed.
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Re: I do not belong in this forum!

Post by Captchee » Thu Dec 10, 2009 12:38 pm

yep and i would also say you belong in this forum just as anyone else .
people should not be afraid to post what they do . be proud of it

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Lance Coleman
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Re: I do not belong in this forum!

Post by Lance Coleman » Thu Dec 10, 2009 4:49 pm

Oh I'm tickled to death with the outcome Cap. I just know it was more luck than skill that brought about that outcome LOL!

OKIE DOKIE,
Lyman stocks. see that cheek piece right there??
Image
NOT a big fan of those. small or sculpted ones like on southern mountains, kentuckies, tennessees and such?? yea OK, but these big ol jokers?? Nah not my thing. So I whacked it off like this.
Image
OK I'm going for an aged look. so even though I'm not meticulous on getting things super smooth? I don't want curly Qs and squigglies and such that would denote bad craftsmanship. Those sort of marks happen in finishing the rifle NOT hunting and carrying a field. So I tried to get her pretty smooth. Just left a blemish here or there and did not totally remove all machining marks left by Lyman. Also where you get porous areas from grain run off?? I scraped most of those smooth but I did leave several areas or porous holes showing. I'm not going to sand and seal or fill them. They're a great place for wax to build up for more of an older look.

OK first I linseed oil the stock........

Now we hafta finish her. first things first.I decided I need it a bit darker. They SAY it's walnut (I dunno pretty light for walnut) And it has some white out blemishes in the stock that regardless of what you do?? they come back!! I dunno if it's true walnut or some south american cousin. But at the price of a lyman kit as opposed to custom kits?? I'm not complaining. It's a good knot free piece of wood.

SO!! After she's gotta drenching in linseed oil and a saturating in stain what do we do?? we drench her in linseed oil again. I come back in a few hours and buff her dry. (sorry I didn't take many pics of this part)

The next DAY after she's dry we go to Tung oil.
It's not what you do............ It's how you do it.

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Lance Coleman
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Re: I do not belong in this forum!

Post by Lance Coleman » Thu Dec 10, 2009 5:08 pm

OK now we gonna get in to aging the rifle stock. Ya need atleast ONE COAT of tung oil or true oil or what ever yer gonna finish with on the stock. Why?? because our next step involves SPRAY PAINT. And SPRAY PAINT will NOT stick to oil based stains or linseed oil (trust me on this) :oops:
So after we have the stock sealed with a harder sealer like tung oil we need either a couple old guns to look at and admire, or a buncha pics on line of older rifles. Fortunately my buddy Billy has a couple closets full of 100 plus year old guns.

So we take some FLAT black spray paint..... and we literally spray paint the riser flat black . like this.
Image
Now we can just spray the whole thing black or just spray parts of it (don't stress over this part, it comes back off) I pretty much looked at where there was alot of polish and wax build up and sweat and handling marks on old rifles, hit it HEAVY with paint there and just over sprayed the rest of the stock.

OK after your paint is good and dry, You want to find some calm quiete time and a nice piece of 0000 steel wool. You sit down with the stock in yer lap, and the steel wool. You look at old guns and pics of old guns... You take the steel wool and you BUFF the paint OFF the stock in areas you do NOT want black, and leave it where you do. adjust pressure and you can gently fade black to finished wood.

Take yer time, if you take too much off?? guess what?? spray some more on!! But just be patient and get it the way you want it. if it's too much black?? remove some, not enough?? add some. use the steel wool like a pencil eraser in order to buff the stock in to the "look" you want.

Here's what I came up with on mine.

Image
Image
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Lance Coleman
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Re: I do not belong in this forum!

Post by Lance Coleman » Thu Dec 10, 2009 5:17 pm

Your also going to want to put the gun semi somewhat together around this point in time. Because you're going to want to actually get a bit of black paint on some of your furniture, and age a bit of it as well. You know from fouling and such......
Again don't stress because that piece of steel wool will gently buff this paint right back off.

Image
OK now once we think we have her where we want her and the paint has had more than ample time to dry?? THIS is when we want to make sure we cannot steel wool the paint back off.. so it's a light coat of tung oil and left to dry . We don't want to over work the first coat, because the last thing we wish to do is reactivate the paint or dissolve it.

After this coat is dry?? Then we can add several more coats of tungoil to seal everything up.

When I say everything?? I mean everything. I put 4 coats on my rifle AFTER I put the light coat on to seal the paint. The final two coats?? I actually had the barrel in place on the rifle. I had already tungoiled the barrel with two coats as well. Yup! it just goes right on that barrel even over gun oil and seals her right up. As to date it's not chipped off, flaked off, peeled off or came off.
It's not what you do............ It's how you do it.

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Lance Coleman
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Re: I do not belong in this forum!

Post by Lance Coleman » Thu Dec 10, 2009 5:22 pm

So ya wind up with this confusing looking piece!!
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I mean OK it looks old... but....
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The finish?? it's.......
Image
well it's too dadgum new and shiny lookin!
Image
So we gently buff the finish with the steel wool. AAHH!! and then we give her the coup de grassi!! Good ol homer formbys furniture polish! Well OK I used minwax paste wax but you get the idea. Several nice coats of minwax buffed on seals her up like a water tight glove, fills the porous voids and smooths out the finish. And when you just barely buff the final coat?? Ya come out with a nice handrubbed look.
It's not what you do............ It's how you do it.

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Lance Coleman
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Re: I do not belong in this forum!

Post by Lance Coleman » Thu Dec 10, 2009 5:27 pm

SO! thats how I turned my new Trad Rag giveaway Lyman GP kit in to an ol gun named "Rags"

And ya wanna know what I think?? Ya wanna know how she shoots?? How well does she perform ya say??
You'll notice in the second pic of the above post the hammer does not fall square center the nipple. The stock came inletted and was already setting so deep with the lock I couldn't use the stock as a method of aligning them. So a pair of pliers a torch and 4 minutes took care of this problem............ But other than that??

Image
Image
I have absolutely positively no complaints whatsoever about her looks.... or her performance. I just really wish I woulda got hooked in this a lot earlier!
Image
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Re: I do not belong in this forum!

Post by mountainrifle » Thu Dec 10, 2009 5:56 pm

looks great nice work!
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Re: I do not belong in this forum!

Post by Captchee » Thu Dec 10, 2009 7:03 pm

looks real good lance .
the dark areas you did , those are called patena areas. see back then they use alot of linseed and other boiled oils or laqures to finish stocks .
linseed never 100% dries . even though it feels dry to the touch . so what happens is over time dirts and oils colled in and on the finish .
this is heaviest around the wrist and lock areas as well as the forestock . basicly anywhere were one grabs the rifle alot or on or around the butt plate when its subject to contact with the ground .
again very nice job , well done

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Lance Coleman
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Re: I do not belong in this forum!

Post by Lance Coleman » Thu Dec 10, 2009 7:47 pm

Thanks Guys.

Cap, there's a difference or different meaning for Antiqueing and patina isn't there?? basically which is what? IS antique defined as somethign old and Patina defined as age or markings on something old because of it's age?

I never really knew it was from oils and such not ever really drying that caused that. I just knew that my great great grandpas 130yr ol shotgun I have here really showed in on the butt, around the hammers, on the forearm where he would grab it and hold for a shot, and under neath the fore arm where he held and cradled it to carry afield.
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Re: I do not belong in this forum!

Post by Captchee » Thu Dec 10, 2009 9:15 pm

Cap, there's a difference or different meaning for Antiqueing and patina isn't there
Antiquing is the process of making something new look old .

patina is what builds up that makes something like your grandpas original look the way it does . that’s what we try to match when we antique something
it did not look that way when new , it got that way with age and time , it built a patina

today we just dont get that because we use oils that dry for the most part completely .

now don’t do this !!!
you will have to trust me on this . but if you were to take say denatured alcohol put it on a rag and with some elbow grease you could clean all that color off right back to somewhat of a dull oil finish found originaly on your grandpas shotgun . now some of the patena would stay becouse its absorbed into the oil and the wood

Now I did not say this in my post in the bow forum .
But one of the reason true oil isn’t good for guns is that it penetrates so deep .
I does that because of the tung oils in it .
Lets say your grandpas shotgun had a true oil finish “ which it doesn’t “ but lets say it did .
Now lets say it was damaged and you had to do a repair . You cant just sand down the repair area and re stain . The reason is , the true oil goes so deep , that it will not alow the wood to take the stain to the depth of the surrounding wood . So what happens is you have to float the stain OR completely re finish the stock .
lets also not forget that in order to get the repair to bond correctly you have to get through the layer of oil OR use a product that will hold even against oil . IE aqua glass
It also will not alow a stock to get that really nice patina . The reason is that it again is tung oil and dries completely .
Sure you casn get the same places dirty . But it will wipe right off with alittle water .

Unlike the nice warm patina on grandpas shotgun

don’t get me wrong , true oil is a good strong water resistant finish . But IMO it’s a fast finish .
The same finish and water resistance can be obtained with a proper finish which can be then sanded through and re stained if need be

Again lance you did a wonderful job on that rifle

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Re: I do not belong in this forum!

Post by TradRag » Thu Dec 10, 2009 9:17 pm

Ol' Rags eeehhh!!!

Lance, it looks amazing! I love it and thank you for finally sharing this with us. I've been dying to see it built along. You would only tease me with those harvest pics and that sir just ain't right. :P
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Re: I do not belong in this forum!

Post by Lance Coleman » Thu Dec 10, 2009 11:41 pm

LOL Bryan!! :rolf:

Yall I guess I was bein mean ta Bryan. :twisted: I would send him a Text message via cell phone saying "Hey Bryan! I'm hunting with my Lyman Kit! Want me to send you a pic?" He would text back "YEA!" I would send him a pic and say "I can only get a lil bit of the gun in the camera pic bro, sorry but here's a lil bit of the barrel." :P

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Re: I do not belong in this forum!

Post by TWOFEATHERS » Fri Dec 11, 2009 8:20 am

Lance That is real sweeeeet man, I wish you guys were around when I built all three of my kit guns, Now it just makes me want to get another!!
Thanks for sharing! Jim
Kajikastik R.C. 55#@28"/L.B.57#@28"/.54cal cabelas hawken kit gun And a .45 cal kentucky pederzolli -and now a new .54 cal GP flintlock kit gun/AT HOME IN THE WOODS,I FEEL FREE AND VERY MUCH ALIVE!!!!!

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Re: I do not belong in this forum!

Post by Captchee » Fri Dec 11, 2009 8:43 am

LOL Bryan!!

Yall I guess I was bein mean ta Bryan. I would send him a Text message via cell phone saying "Hey Bryan! I'm hunting with my Lyman Kit! Want me to send you a pic?" He would text back "YEA!" I would send him a pic and say "I can only get a lil bit of the gun in the camera pic bro, sorry but here's a lil bit of the barrel."
hehehheh man thats not plaing fair LOL .
i wonder should i do the same thing with Bryan hawkens rifle that he has ordered ?
bryan . should i send it to lance first so he can break it in ??// :rolf:

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Re: I do not belong in this forum!

Post by TradRag » Fri Dec 11, 2009 10:52 am

i wonder should i do the same thing with Bryan hawkens rifle that he has ordered ?
bryan . should i send it to lance first so he can break it in ??// :rolf:
Teasing me with pics would just be wrong!! :? I'm good with Lance looking it over but I may need to shoot it before he does. :mrgreen: I fear he may actually get blood on it before I do if you sent it to him first.
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Lance Coleman
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Re: I do not belong in this forum!

Post by Lance Coleman » Fri Dec 11, 2009 11:32 am

TradRag wrote:
i wonder should i do the same thing with Bryan hawkens rifle that he has ordered ?
bryan . should i send it to lance first so he can break it in ??// :rolf:
Teasing me with pics would just be wrong!! :? I'm good with Lance looking it over but I may need to shoot it before he does. :mrgreen: I fear he may actually get blood on it before I do if you sent it to him first.
Bill Howland of brackenbury bows sent me a prototype recurve that was boxed up and shipped not 2 hours after final tiller and shaping. no finish no nothing on the bow. Less than 12 hours after I recieved the bow I had deer blood and sweat from one end of it to the other.

Lesson learned, do NOT send Lance Coleman ANYTHING ya don't want, scratched, scuffed, hunted with, or blood all over! ;)

ON the SAME NOTE CAPTCHEE!! Yes sir I definately would tease Bryan with his rifle, a tiny pic here of just a leg, or maybe some furniture clevage. He takes a ribbing really well and he's awful fun to poke fun at! But I warn ya. He pokes back! :rolf:
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Re: I do not belong in this forum!

Post by Beaverman » Sat Dec 12, 2009 3:06 pm

Nice job Lance, well done!
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Re: I do not belong in this forum!

Post by Craig/Fl » Sun Dec 13, 2009 8:19 am

Outstanding job Lance ! thanks for sharing.

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Re: I do not belong in this forum!

Post by 337 » Sun Dec 13, 2009 1:54 pm

Lance,
Congrats you did a great job on the rifle, I really like the been there done that look of it.

Jeff

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Re: I do not belong in this forum!

Post by LadyHawk » Tue Dec 15, 2009 10:16 pm

Very nice Lance. Thanks for sharing. I love the paint bit. I was thinking of doing something similar to a stock I have but with a flame. I have seen some nice hawk handles done with a torch flame. Any thoughts on using fire on a rifle stock? Thinking paint would be easier. Looks great!
Capt-if no on tung oil, what oil would you recomend?
LH
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Re: I do not belong in this forum!

Post by Captchee » Wed Dec 16, 2009 6:09 pm

i use linseed as a base , then a couple very light coats of tung to seal the linseed

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Re: I do not belong in this forum!

Post by LadyHawk » Wed Dec 16, 2009 9:51 pm

My bad. Miss read true oil for tung oil. Thanks!
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Re: I do not belong in this forum!

Post by Jared » Fri Dec 18, 2009 9:25 pm

I'm working on a refinish of my earlier refinish of a pistol kit. I browned the barrel and it came out nicely, but now I think I'd like to give a yarn wrap a try since I'm fancying it up a little. What do I need to do to remove browning???

Jared

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Re: I do not belong in this forum!

Post by Captchee » Sat Dec 19, 2009 9:51 am

you know , i was thinking here .
lets start posting new topics when possible unless the subject is directly related to a topic .
that way people coming here in the future can more easily find the information .

Removing browning would be a good topic . We could discuses it and not effect the main topic thus getting side tracked off of lances tutorial .
im going to start a new thread on the subject

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Re: I do not belong in this forum!

Post by T.O. » Mon Jan 18, 2010 5:18 pm

I love your gun. What kind of stain did you use?

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