where to start

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Re: where to start

Postby Jared » Fri Jan 30, 2009 7:44 pm

Thanks Captchee, I love it, more tools and more stuff to try my hand at.

This is my problem, I love learning new things, that leads to a jack of all trades, master of none.

I wouldn't have it any other way.
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Re: where to start

Postby Linc » Fri Jan 30, 2009 8:06 pm

Thank you for posting this rebuild. Also thank you for answering all of my questions. The engraving really was the finishing touch. Absolutely amazing. :D David is one lucky fella.
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Re: where to start

Postby Captchee » Fri Jan 30, 2009 8:20 pm

you all are more then welcome . now i wish i could figure out this new camera so that the photos turn out looking like it really looks lik LOL
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Re: where to start

Postby Captchee » Fri Jan 30, 2009 11:23 pm

here is a YouTube that shows master engravers from berretta at work using both the chase and push engraving

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Re: where to start

Postby Spotted Bull » Sun Feb 01, 2009 11:13 am

Captchee wrote:you all are more then welcome . now i wish i could figure out this new camera so that the photos turn out looking like it really looks lik LOL

I'm no master photographer, but I will try and get a few pics of it up as well. Thinking maybe some outside to get the sunlight glinting off that pewter and those engravings!
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Re: where to start

Postby Captchee » Sun Feb 08, 2009 3:16 pm

Ok so now as promised this weekend was the time for shooting . So I took the pistol out to check what she would do .
I was very impressed . Now mind you im not a pistol shooter . Myself I normally do not compete in that area at all .
So when I first began sighting the pistol in I started at 10 yards .
Now mind you the past owner of this pistol was there . I showed him the pistol and his mouth dropped . But his reply was , she sure is pretty but I know for a fact she will not shoot for beans .
Well said I . My bet is she will hold at least a 5 inch group maybe even 3 .
hIs bet was that it wouldn’t hold a 10 inch group .
So we put 5 bucks on the table .
Now I am proud to say that benched at 10 yards she held a 5 shot group that was all in one large hole .

Image

So said I , do you want to pay me now or shell we move back ? But I don’t think that there would be any reason the group would grow to 10 inches even at at 15 -20 yards . It was agreed and I got me an extra 5 bucks lol .

But what I didn’t tell the past owner was that the group as about 6 inches higher then where I was aiming .
Considering this I got to looking as to why and realized that the rear sight was near 3X as tall as the front site .
So after getting home I filed the rear sight down to just slightly higher then the front .
This morning I ran down to a friends place along the river where we shoot . We don’t have a bench so we shot off hand . I used the same target as yesterday so as to have all the same shots placed on the same paper .

This time my sight picture was holding center of the bull .
This photo shows all the shots I have done .
But I have marked the 6 shots off hand at 10 yards . I had 2 fliers , 1 in the bull and 1 high of the group .
Notice this group only has 3 holes . But if you look closely you will see that the hole on the left is a double hole .

I then drew a new bulls eye and we moved back to 20 yards . Off hand
Again you will notice a double shot in the same hole in the group and one shot that flew low .

The temp out side is 30 deg .
Again im not a pistol shooter and I believe these groups would be ½ the size if it were not for me and my shaking .
But considering this barrel has a VERY slow twist , less then a ¼ inch in 6 inches , I would say that this is pretty good .

So the load for this was 15 grains of 3F . A .010 patch , “..015 may be tighter” .433 rb

Image


So i guess that’s about it . All that’s left is to box her up and get her in the mail to Roaring bull tomorrow afternoon
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Re: where to start

Postby Spotted Bull » Sun Feb 08, 2009 3:36 pm

Looks good Cap! Can't wait to put some rounds through her myself!!


Momma said no guns for a while so I will play with this one ALOT! :D
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Re: where to start

Postby Captchee » Sun Feb 08, 2009 5:10 pm

here is a little slow motion video of it firing for you tell the mail comes LOL

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Re: where to start

Postby Spotted Bull » Sun Feb 08, 2009 5:20 pm

pretty cool, but what's all that white stuff on the ground?
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Re: where to start

Postby Captchee » Sun Feb 08, 2009 6:37 pm

Roaring Bull wrote:pretty cool, but what's all that white stuff on the ground?

well right now its more ICE then anything lol
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Re: where to start

Postby William Three Coons » Wed Feb 11, 2009 10:21 pm

Captchee, This was a great project. Thank you, and i hope you have another sooner than later.. That CVA came out a lot better than I have ever seen any cva come out ever. Just a great job.
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Re: where to start

Postby TradRag » Wed Feb 11, 2009 10:54 pm

Extremely nice Captchee :!: :!: and Wonderful of you to share. Thank you.
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Re: where to start

Postby Captchee » Thu Feb 12, 2009 2:51 pm

your welcome
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Re: where to start

Postby Spotted Bull » Mon Feb 16, 2009 5:56 pm

:D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D

Guess what I got today? Yep, and it looks even better in person than in the pictures!!


Thanks alot Cap, It really is awesome!
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Re: where to start

Postby Captchee » Mon Feb 16, 2009 6:00 pm

good to hear it got to you ok roaring bull .
told ya i wasnt much a photographer :D
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Re: where to start

Postby Jared » Fri May 15, 2009 5:27 pm

Hey Captchee,

This ones been lying dormant for awhile (online, not in my head) but I have some questions about pouring pewter. I've given it some practice attempts, but my cardboard forms and wood are getting scorched pretty badly. My first attempts were in a pine block, so I thought maybe it was just too soft or burned at a lower temp, so I tried in some scrap walnut with the same results.

Is it possible I have pewter with a different mixture of metals that melts at a higher temp? It melted fairly readily on a hotplate burner.

I've been playing around using some of your ideas and may have something to show off in the next couple of weeks.

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Re: where to start

Postby Captchee » Sun May 17, 2009 8:43 pm

well ya there is highest temp materials like Babbitt . but these will not melt in a pan .
now the thing to remeber is you will get alittle scorching .
this is why you should be making your beds and pouring when the stock is still at about 75 to 80 % shape . . you have to be able to sand down through the surface and clean things up .
now the wood should not burn . if it does then your way to hot . bring the pewter up to liquid and then keep the heat on tel you just start to see it with a slight blue tint .
then pour .

personally i have never had birch , burn . especially not walnut which is much harder then birch .
you can also pour to pine . it will scorch around the bed , but once you and down the piece , you should find , that’s just on the surface

i don’t remember if i showed this or not but here is another pistol i did last winter that also has a pewter nose cap .
notice no scorching or burning of the woods . i would say your pour is just to hot. also again don’t forget to make your bed deep enough that you can sand the stock down to shape

Image

Image

Image
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Re: where to start

Postby Hey_Allen » Thu Aug 20, 2009 3:18 pm

I want to first say, you do amazing work and thank you for documenting it to show how it's done!


I got started looking for info on Jukar pistols when a friend tossed me a partial kit, still unassembled.
I found that the instructions (once he located them, as well as the lock and trigger) were just about useless, and wanted to find more info before touching the kit, for fear of making something that looked like your project started out as.

With all the work that you did to that, I've definitely gotten some ideas, and will have to see how things turn out.
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Re: where to start

Postby Captchee » Fri Aug 21, 2009 9:01 am

thank you Allen for the kind words .
be sure and post your work so we all can see it .
if you have any questions , please feel free to ask
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Re: where to start

Postby Dave Bulla » Wed Aug 26, 2009 12:26 pm

Well, first day on the site and I already found something new and really cool!

I have a question about your barrel blacking process though.... Do you plug the bores with something when dunking in the boiling water? At first I thought you would have to but then I thought maybe not if the rusting agent is only applied to the outside of the barrels. Though water in the bore that is left to rust would be bad I think. I guess you could not plug and just make sure you get water out before you leave it to set to rust for the next round? Same goes for any action parts on more modern guns like a S X S shotgun barrel set.

Also, what is the barrel finish on the second pistol? Almost looks like a combination of blue and case colored with that pattern.

VERY nice work all around.
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Re: where to start

Postby Captchee » Thu Aug 27, 2009 9:25 pm

Thank you for the kind words .
Well , depending on how you brown , you may want to plug the barrels . However to black as I did above , you don’t have to plug the barrels . Remember the barrel was was browned first . The boiling water only coverts the red iron oxide to black . It doesn’t rust anything .The barrel will get very hot and once its remover from the water you wont be able to hold it . , just wipe down the outside and then let it dry for a few minutes .
Then run an oil patch down the bore . The water will evaporate very quickly from the barrel .
Now if your going to do a salt blue . Then you want to plug the barrels or you will also blue the inside of the barrel
This is a salt blue or oxynate salts that a gunsmith friend of mine “Jerry Huddleston “does . Notice the blue is near a cobalt type of blue . The barrel is placed into the salts after they have reached a point of becoming liquid . it’s a very tricky type of blue
Image

The last barrel is actually oxide patina’s applied to a bright barrel first the barrel is blacked with a patina . Then that patina is removed in a a pattern. Then I came back with a yellow patina . The finish is then has a lacquer applied over it , then a finish wax
This isn’t as strong a finish as browning. But it could be if I used a Dye to do the same thing
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Re: where to start

Postby Linc » Mon Sep 21, 2009 6:50 am

Captchee,
I just fell into a sweet deal yesterday. I traded for 4 bullet molds and a pistol kit. All it cost me was a cheap 10yr old chronograph with tripod and a pound of 3F powder. :D I am not sure of the age, make of the pistol or the caliber. The only thing stamped on the barrel is Made In Spain. The cal is either .44 or .45. It is also missing a few parts that should be easy to get. Rear sight, ramrod and tang screw. It is also missing the instructions but that shouldn't be a big deal.
Being in the world of the unemployed I will have extra time to be able to try my hand at all that you have showed in the tutorial. Now to get my hands on some pewter and wire inlay. LOL. I am sure I will be picking your brains once I get the project started this winter. Thanks again for posting the rebuild. :D
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Re: where to start

Postby Captchee » Sat Sep 26, 2009 9:59 pm

ha , any time just ask away .
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Re: where to start

Postby LadyHawk » Tue Dec 08, 2009 10:35 am

This is cool. I am in the middle of bilding one of these kits. Was a B-day gift from my Mom. Found it at a flea market with all its parts. Stamped 1977 on the box(the year I was born). So she gave it to me. I have some new planning to do!
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Re: where to start

Postby TradRag » Tue Dec 08, 2009 11:56 am

LadyHawk wrote:This is cool. I am in the middle of bilding one of these kits. Was a B-day gift from my Mom. Found it at a flea market with all its parts. Stamped 1977 on the box(the year I was born). So she gave it to me. I have some new planning to do!
LH


LH, I'd like to see some pictures of it when you can.
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Re: where to start

Postby richmier » Sat Apr 23, 2011 6:47 am

Captchee wrote:So where should one start when it comes to going down the trail to gunsmithing .
Well really you can start anywhere . Take classes, even go to a trade school .

But for myself it all started with a love of history and muzzleloading specifically .
Now I want to say here , that I don’t know it all and in fact when it comes to others like myself I would have to say im only average in my knowledge and skill .
But anyway , I started reading , gathering and collecting books of any and all kinds . Basically anything pertaining to muzzleloaders . We didn’t have the internet and the information was sometime very scarce
Learning to build was even harder if you did not have someone around who had the experience and was willing to teach .
Today we are lucky and those much of the information concerning rifle building ,contained in bits and pieces, in all the books have been somewhat consolidated into building book .
Books like
Recreating the American Long rifle by Shumway
The Gunsmith Of Grenville County by Peter Alexander
Recreating the Double barreled shotgun by William Brockway

Just to name 3 . There are others as well and with the advent of the internet the historic information explosion is about unlimited .
Now days we can just jump on line , go to a web site like the Traditional Muzzleloading association , American Long rifle Association . Or even web sites like this one and find answers to questions we may have ..
But when I started working on muzzleloading pieces I had no such options nor any such money .
As such I started out converting center fires ro muzzleloading . My first was an Old 6 # 03A3 that had been scrapped . Then I converted a 30 .30 marlin that been shot out . If I recall I actual bought that rifle for 5 bucks at a yard sale when I was 15 .

But anyway back in those day the rendezvous seen was big and heavy . Lots of folks . One of those events was considered small if they had only 150 shooters that’s where I go introduced into the differences in muzzleloaders IE production guns and customs. During those days there were few customs but the ones that did show were simply wonders to the eye . The reliability of the flintlocks was amazing . But again while today the price of a custom rifle back then seems cheep . The cost was actual has hard to swallow as it is today . So I was out of luck .
See I grew up under some different circumstances the many folks but the same type as some others .
My father worked for the Government and made back then 375 .00 a month .
We didn’t really have anything .
But we had family . My mother was American Indian and really played a big roll in my life .
As children when we went to town and my sister and I wanted candy , my mother would show us how to make our own . Later when I wanted a slingshot , my dad showed me how to make my own .
My grandfather would tell me . Charlie , everything you want is in your head . The ability to make it is in your hands . Never let the want in you hart out run those two .

Ok so here is my point . Maybe we cant aford a high end currly maple , English walnut in presentation grade or a good piece of rock maple or cherry .. Maybe we cant aford a new barrel , or what have you . But we have an old kit gun or CVA rifle . Maybe pistol that’s gathering dust .

All we have to do is use what’s in our heads . See what’s inside there is free , its easily filled , expanded.
The more that’s added to that space between our ears , the greater our imaginations can be . Remember that imagination is the maps our hands need to make that come true .
Was Tomas Edison born with the knowledge to make the light bulb ? NO . he filled his head with Knowledge. Which in turn grew his imagination. Which gave his hands the skill to do what he did .

Now what im about to do , some folks will say AHHHHHHHH you cant make a silk purse from a sows ear .
I will be the first to say , That is true . But you can make a real nice purse from a sows ear .
Frankly way would any of us want a silk purse anyway . Would look kinda silly im thinking . But ha, in this day an age , what can I say

So lets take say this Jukar old pistol . doesn’t look like much right now . The person who built it did a real poor job . The wood is less the quality . The lock is the same as is the barrel . But the important part is it shoots . This makes it a good candidate for someone wanting to learn to start out on . Or maybe you have a rifle that you want to change but need practice firsT” which by the way is a real good idea .”

So lets see what we can do with this . Over the next couple weeks im going to make some changes . we are going to strip the old finish of the stock . Clean the barrel up . Do some Pewter casting , refinish the stock . Do some engraving and maybe even a little gold leaf work , we will have to see how our imagination runs
I will add nothing to this gun in the way of cost IE IMO this pistol as is worth IMO no more then 15 to 20 bucks My plan here is to add no more the 10 bucks worth of material and maybe 20 hours in time tops . My hope in doing this is that it will stir your imagination as to what you can do

So lets get started shall we . Please feel free to ask any questions along the way .
If it just so happens you have something laying around and want to work along , Please feel free to do so .
Ill be glade to answer any questions you may have

So here is the poor abused animal we are going to pump new life back into . the first thing we are going to do is set back and just look at it . tell the point we get over what it looks like now and come to the place where our imaginations take over and that little light bulb above out heads clicks on .



Image

Image


Nice guns,,, it's really a classic guns by the way I forget say that I have a collections also of knifes and brass knuckle .
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Re: where to start

Postby torquemada055 » Sat May 07, 2011 12:27 am

I found your rework thread over at Black Powder Forums and it lead me here. I am trying to do some of what you have shown in this thread.
This is a simply fantastic resource for someone who has no experience but wants to try. Thanks for the information, I started a thread on mine over at the B.P.F., but my work will not be this gorgeous for years to come.
Glad I found this place, I didnt know how much I have to learn.
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Re: where to start

Postby Captchee » Sat May 07, 2011 9:43 am

i just read your thread and made a post over there . i dont visit that forum much but check this one 4-6 times a day . i would be glad to help in any way i can .

IMO these cheeper piece are a fun way to get your feet wet without to much worry an messing high quality parts up .
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Re: where to start

Postby zeek from coon creek » Sun May 11, 2014 5:19 pm

I stumbled across this, this afternoon and thought it was absolutely worth reviving for us newer members to see. Amazing transformation, I do believe you made better than a silk purse from that sow's ear Captchee.
Last edited by zeek from coon creek on Sat Jul 23, 2016 7:21 am, edited 1 time in total.
Zeek;

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Re: where to start

Postby ehvhram » Fri Jun 26, 2015 6:07 pm

I know this is a old post but all I can say is wow! , Beautiful work. I have a couple of flintlocks I'm re-doing right now and this post will be very useful . Thanks .
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