Lets design & make a recurve..Snake skins !!

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Re: Lets design & make a recurve..Snake skins !!

Postby Greywolf » Wed Jun 03, 2009 10:47 am

"I've enjoyed this build along a lot. I didn't realize just how much y'all put into one. Does the humidity over there cause any particular challenges you wouldn't encounter in drier climes?"


Very very little is any, the glass serves as sealed wrap on the belly and back and what little wood on the side is well sealed with Truoil or like I use, Thunderbird 2 part expoy finish, best thing I've found with the epoxy is you can do a handrubbed finish if so desired and when you use steel wool it dulls very well with no scratching.

There is more change in self style bows and backed bows, but if properly finished it's minimal, cold or heat would affect the performance more than anything, but again that also is minimal.
My first longbow I designed about a dozen years ago, speced at #56@28. 12 yrs later it's #55@28 and has been strung 80% of the time.

Pete is sending me a drawing of the Ugly bow, be fun to make one, I sent him a few of my drawings too. One other thing, the snake skins quieted the bow even more. and it has been christened "Dark Angel".
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Re: Lets design & make a recurve..Snake skins !!

Postby Zeno's Arrow » Sat Jul 25, 2009 11:13 am

Outstanding build along. Thanks!
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Re: Lets design & make a recurve..Snake skins !!

Postby Greywolf » Sat Jul 25, 2009 11:59 am

Your welcome Zeno, Glad to share with anyone who wants to try.
I got 6 pages worth of hunts filled out in the journal. Like the way it looks in my pack when I open it, reminds me to jot a few notes at the beginning of each hunt.

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Re: Lets design & make a recurve..Snake skins !!

Postby Greywolf » Fri Jan 29, 2010 12:11 am

Just in case your wondering....Yes it has taken a couple hogs.

Image

I finally finished and signed the bow too.

Image

The Dark Angle lives.

62 inches over all
#50@28
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Re: Lets design & make a recurve..Snake skins !!

Postby Kirkll » Sun Feb 14, 2010 10:01 am

Great job on the build along Grey Woof. :D i like your style bro. the quilting loop was a nice touch for the eliptic curves. i love it!
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Re: Lets design & make a recurve..Snake skins !!

Postby Greywolf » Mon Feb 15, 2010 12:05 am

Thank you, it was a fun build along to do. I guess the whole thing was to point out how you don't need fancy machines to build a bow, just some basic tools.

I also got to looking at your takedown limb form, Hinges...Hmmmmm I like that !!
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Re: Lets design & make a recurve..Snake skins !!

Postby Kirkll » Sat Feb 20, 2010 10:30 am

heads up on the hinge idea bro.... It works real slick. :D ...... But....you really need to through bolt them with at least one bolt top and bottom. after a couple air-ups, i started getting movement just using screws. i'm also using heavy commercial grade hinges. i don't think the residetial hollow core grade would last long.
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Re: Lets design & make a recurve..Snake skins !!

Postby Greywolf » Sun Feb 21, 2010 5:55 pm

I have a set of industerial steel door hinges I was thinkin about using on my birch press(that's all I use is birch) and yepper know what you mean about through bolting. I have even sleeved and epoxied in place some of my holes drilled through the wood. All because of the slop in the top press piece. Bottom is double bolted and I leave the top a single bolt. On my newest longbow press I double bolted top and bottom.

Best thing so far I have found is making my spacers wider 1/4 inch to 1/2 inch. Now I get a perfect oval.
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Re: Lets design & make a recurve..Snake skins !!

Postby Kirkll » Sun Feb 21, 2010 6:32 pm

great idea on inserting sleeves on the older forms. i may just do that one myself. Thanks bro!
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Re: Lets design & make a recurve..Snake skins !!

Postby angelstaff » Sat Apr 10, 2010 7:27 pm

Excellent work, thank you very much for sharing
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Re: Lets design & make a recurve..Snake skins !!

Postby Greywolf » Sun Apr 11, 2010 2:51 am

It was a pleasure to share. Thank you for the compliment.

And Welcome to Tradrag, looking forward to reading some of your sharing.
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Re: Lets design & make a recurve..Snake skins !!

Postby angelstaff » Sun Apr 11, 2010 2:19 pm

am Spanish and thanks to sites and people like you I'm learning, soon will put some of my work
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Re: Lets design & make a recurve..Snake skins !!

Postby pitts2367 » Wed May 19, 2010 3:33 am

More,more!!
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Re: Lets design & make a recurve..Snake skins !!

Postby Coda » Wed Dec 01, 2010 8:37 pm

Greywolf.... 1st post here but I saw this build-a-long about a year ago. At the time I was wanting to attempt my first glass bow after a few all wood long bows with varring success. It never happened and now have the bug again. My plan was/is to use a set of plans from the binghams 60" recurve a friend gave me a few years ago, as a guide for the riser, form etc. My issue here is that I have a 30" draw and I'm thinking that I want to go from the 60" to a 64" length for the bow.

My question for you is: On the length guide (little box thingy standing vertically at the end of the bow to mark where to cut), would it be as simple as adding a couple inches to the height of that. As you stated, since the belly is resting flat that would seem like the easiest way to add length to my bow, Just not sure if there is any other design considerations I'm not thinking of.

Thanks for the awesome build and any help in advance.
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Re: Lets design & make a recurve..Snake skins !!

Postby Greywolf » Thu Dec 02, 2010 1:21 am

On the binghams plans, some have two sets provided if memory serves( 50-50 at best) the riser for a 64-66 is longer,than the 60 - 62. So the working part of the limb stays the same length on their drawing. I used the riser idea from Binghams I just modified it to fit and look not as pronounced in the Dark Angel.

if you have the paper drawing, just do a center line and give an inch on each side the center of the bow will be the same.

I have to ask a question, is your draw a 30 inch compound draw length? I draw 30" with my Hoyt Vectrix but I have a shade over 29" with the recurve and longbow (depending on the style of bow) you have a tendency to hunch up, unless you shoot 3 under and anchor under your eye and have gorilla length arms (no offense to long armed gorillas)

Howard Hill had a 32" draw but had trouble finding arrows that were #1 long enough and #2 had proper spine so he shortened his draw to 29 and he shot that way for the rest of his life.

Go for it, and if not then re-design it some, can't hurt, either it works or it don't.
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Re: Lets design & make a recurve..Snake skins !!

Postby Coda » Thu Dec 02, 2010 2:00 am

Thanks Greywolf. I see what your saying about the draw length compund vs trad. To be honest man, Not having extensive archery knowledge other than getting an itch to shoot bows and building a couple in my garage, I pretty much just measured my wing span on the wall and hit up a chart.

Makes sense about the longer riser if I still decide to go the longer route. Like you said I'll have to see what works and what won't. I appreciate your input though. Thank you sir.
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Re: Lets design & make a recurve..Snake skins !!

Postby Greywolf » Thu Dec 02, 2010 12:23 pm

PM me anytime if like, sometimes things just work out the Dark Angel will work just fine with a 30 inch draw with just a tad extra on the nock ends maybe 1/2 or 3/4 more. Don't hurt the performance none thats for sure.

take pics as ya go, I know it's a pain in the Okole to do but it's worth the memories to do it.


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Re: Lets design & make a recurve..Snake skins !!

Postby jmichelin84 » Sun Jul 15, 2012 11:07 pm

This was a great build along, the bow is beautiful and i love how it looks, that bow form looks amazing aswell
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Re: Lets design & make a recurve..Snake skins !!

Postby Greywolf » Mon Jul 16, 2012 12:52 am

There is a second Dark Angel being built by another member from Sweden

Check it out,
viewtopic.php?f=35&t=6514
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Re: Lets design & make a recurve..Snake skins !!

Postby Greywolf » Sat Nov 03, 2012 2:08 pm

viewtopic.php?f=35&t=6514

His recurve is done and he's been bit big time by the building bug.
Martin has a nice longbow build going. amazing thing ..check it out
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Re: Lets design & make a recurve..Snake skins !!

Postby zeek from coon creek » Fri Dec 21, 2012 3:00 pm

Hey, Greywolf,
I have a couple of questions. Well, actually I have many questions, but about 3 that I'll ask now. First, what do you use for a heat source in your curing oven? Second, if you were building with clear glass would you use the same adhesive? Third, if you want to color the wooden lams what kind of stain or dye is compatible with the adhesive? I have harbored a desire to attempt a bow build for a long time, but have been too intimidated by it to try. Your "Dark Angel build along" is clear enough to remove a lot of the mystery from the process. I am going to start gathering the materials for the hot box and press right after Christmas. I think though that rather than dive right in and attempt a recurve I'm going to attempt a "simple" slightly R & D longbow. Anyway, thanks for going to the trouble to try and teach others how you build your bows.
Zeek;

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Re: Lets design & make a recurve..Snake skins !!

Postby Greywolf » Fri Dec 21, 2012 10:02 pm

zeek from coon creek wrote:Hey, Greywolf,
I have a couple of questions. Well, actually I have many questions, but about 3 that I'll ask now. First, what do you use for a heat source in your curing oven?IAs you can see in the Build-a-long, my oven is a plywood box I built. it's 12 inches wide by 24 inches tall and 72 inches long, I built it as a box then I set the table saw fence to rip at 8 inches, I ran both long sides first then took a Skill saw and connected the two cuts. I mounted 4 light fixtures in the lid and used 4 150 watt lightbulbs as my heat source. The inside of the box is lined with heavy corrugated cardboard with HD alumiumn foil on all the sides. it's a reflective heat source, and gets to 180 degrees if I put a painting tarp over the box Second, if you were building with clear glass would you use the same adhesive? Yes, the only adhesive I use is Smooth On it has never failed in any glue up process. For the tip and handle over lays, I use a product called P-210 it's available at woodcraft or online, it has a 400psi shear strength and "cures" in 3 minutes, it gives you about 10-12 seconds of working time. "Great stuff" again rough up the surfaces and it'll be just fine. Third, if you want to color the wooden lams what kind of stain or dye is compatible with the adhesive?Any water based dye is ok to use, I will make one suggestion, after you stain the laminations use a 32 tooth hack saw blade and rough up the stained area, you might need to touch up some areas if the stain did not soak in far enough. but stain first I have harbored a desire to attempt a bow build for a long time, but have been too intimidated by it to try. Your "Dark Angel build along" is clear enough to remove a lot of the mystery from the process.That's why the build along is 278 pictures long, it's every step you will need to successfully complete a recurve. I am going to start gathering the materials for the hot box and press right after Christmas.The press is made from all Birch plywood, it is stronger and void of any spaces in the plywood I think though that rather than dive right in and attempt a recurve I'm going to attempt a "simple" slightly R & D longbow.I have a build along on here for a longbow build too, check under the "The old sorcerer has an apprentice" process is the same just different material Anyway, thanks for going to the trouble to try and teach others how you build your bows.I pass along anything I have, knowledge or even Trav. Trav is my traveling longbow that has been on the road for 3 years visiting people who might want to try Traditional shooting but don't want to spend the money to try. So I send Trav to visit with them. then they see how fun it is, without spending the money to also find out.... sometimes.......it's "Not for them"


Hope this answers your questions...for now..
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Re: Lets design & make a recurve..Snake skins !!

Postby Greywolf » Sun Jul 21, 2013 6:06 pm

There ya go Full Tiller, got the pictures back on line for ya. I guess there were more people looking at the build-a-long than I realized.
I expanded the bandwidth.
Thanks for the heads up.

If ya have any questions feel free to pm me or post'em up.
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Re: Lets design & make a recurve..Snake skins !!

Postby full tiller » Fri Jul 26, 2013 11:55 pm

SWEET! Thanks again Greywolf!! I start the build this weekend!!
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Re: Lets design & make a recurve..Snake skins !!

Postby full tiller » Sun Aug 04, 2013 7:06 pm

Mark i think i screwed up some. if I got epoxy on the glass... its black... can i just sand the entire strip down even and then seal it up with a clear coat? I got a bit over zealous and anxious.
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Re: Lets design & make a recurve..Snake skins !!

Postby Greywolf » Sun Aug 04, 2013 7:39 pm

Hmmm guess I should of taken some pictures of putting the tape on the smooth side instead of just writing it out, Oh well not to worry
The exterior glossy (shiny side) glass has a protective coating on the glass. It's won't stick as well as if it was sanded. That's one of the reasons we put the tape on the finish side glass to protect it. and keep things from sticking or light bumps and dings.
So what ya need to do is take a utility knife blade, and work it to the edge of the epoxy spot and work it around the glue will pop off, just don't try to take the whole part off at once. don't gouge deep, just work the edge under epoxy. when it does come off I'd suggest you put a on tape because this is needed to draw lines on with a pencil to make sure you like the limb shape. Scribing the limb is the very last thing just before heading to the saw.
In the event it won't pop off then take a arrow drop off wrap a small piece of 220 around the drop off and lightly sand the epoxy spot till it's gone or real close to it. it'll be sanded later anyway.

Etched lines on fiberglass are forever !!!! Make sure everything is pencil perfect before you scribe the line with a sharp pointed scribe.

Remember you will have the bow final shaped and are happy with it, then it is time to sand the entire bow, limbs and all, the limbs will go from a shiny black to a dull grey this is done with 220 paper so it just removes the finish. it for cant remove the epoxy prior to this time you can sand it now. just use point on pressure to remove the glue nothing else. all sanding done will be all light sanding, the riser will be sanded with 220, 300 400 in that order till all the scratches are removed. then look over the whole bow with a magnifying glass, to find any file marks or cross grain sanding scratches. these will be removed with 400 paper.
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Re: Lets design & make a recurve..Snake skins !!

Postby full tiller » Sun Aug 04, 2013 11:11 pm

Whoa there buddy... not your fault I have memory problems. Lord don't think for a second I blame anybody but me for this. Plus... I sorta went off the reservation anyway and used most of the direction s you provided here and made a take down rather than a one-piece. So see.. totally me!

I know doc calls his 80# bow Samson but I think the limbs on this take down I made make 80 pounds look like 20#. I found a way to resolve it... not the greatest solution but a solution none the less. Let's call this a learning experience. 1/4 inch red oak bends well enough but when a decent epoxy is added plus fiberglass... I could lift a car I think.

I learned... I learned. I'll put up the takedown once I have everything buttoned up and presentable. I did manage to remember the masking tape on one of the limbs... just too late for the other... embarrassing... but too late now. I guess we'll see if I have a talent for covering up mistakes as I do in making them. God knows I have a flair for making them! Thanks for the info my friend!
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Re: Lets design & make a recurve..Snake skins !!

Postby CovRick » Sat Oct 05, 2013 4:36 pm

It's uncanny but your bow is almost the same as the one I made 45 years ago! I lived in Sapcote, Leicestershire, UK then and joined a group of wannabe archers. The leaders were an odd couple who met through the scout movement and had made their own bows. I borrowed their former and made a hunting recurve bow, using it for some three years in several competitions and for weekly training sessions. Recently I have enjoyed seeing my grandchildren trying the sport and looked online for some information on buying arrows for my old bow. Surprisingly it seems unaffected by the passage of time and still operates with accuracy. I would like to check its draw weight and hope you can help with a good method.
You may be interested in the method I used to apply pressure whilst the glue holding the riser and limbs together cured. This was achieved using a long strip of rubber cut from a lorry inner tube. Wrapping the rubber several times around the two halves of the former, with the bow parts in between, produced sufficient pressure to hold it together without any problem.
Thanks for reawakening my interest.
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Re: Lets design & make a recurve..Snake skins !!

Postby Greywolf » Sun Oct 06, 2013 1:18 am

Any spring scale that measures #75 or more will do fine.
hang it on a post and tack a yard stick on the post with the 28 inch mark on the inner part of the hook where your going to put the string.
push it down till the riser back is at 28'(the end of the yardstick) and read the scale. easiest way I know of unless to have a draw machine.

Check at 27 inches then at 26 the weight should decrease but about 2-3 pounds per inch loss.
The Dark Angel was 4-5 bows that I like something about each one, all put together into one bow. it's a wonderful shooter very smooth and cast a arrow real well.
I'm happy with it. so are couple other people who have built one, one member in Sweden and another feller in Texas.
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Re: Lets design & make a recurve..Snake skins !!

Postby Firestorm » Wed Mar 19, 2014 6:21 pm

Firstly - Really great build along.

Have been looking at building a bow for a while now and the build along has just given me the final push to do it.. Got two questions for you though regarding tillering of the bow. Did you have to do any tillering on the bow, and what would generally be a good process to follow for tillering a glass laminated bow.
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