conicals from a round ball barrel?

Traditional Muzzleloaders, Flintlocks, Pistols, front stuffer kits, etc.
Post Reply
Tajue17
Raghorn Bull
Posts:38
Joined:Sun Nov 30, 2008 9:08 am
conicals from a round ball barrel?

Post by Tajue17 » Fri Aug 21, 2009 5:16 am

I have a Pennsylvania Match Rifle that is supposed to be slow rifled for round ball only, the thing is with 80gr of swiss I'm shooting 1-2" groups over the bullseye @ 50yds with hornady's buffalo bullet opposed to 6-8" centered groups with round ball? my father said they would float around but I'm finding the bullets are very very accurate out of this barrel (32" match barrel)

anyway my question is this, do you think if it is slow twist rifling would the conicals eventually mess up the rifling inside the barrel and would you stick with the conicals with these results if you really wanted to shoot them.

User avatar
Captchee
Global Moderator
Posts:1831
Joined:Sun Dec 28, 2008 10:46 am
Location:Idaho
Contact:

Re: conicals from a round ball barrel?

Post by Captchee » Fri Aug 21, 2009 8:18 am

its a myth that a slow twist will not shoot conical.
If we look back at many of the long range match rifles of the early 20th century , we find them to have very slow rates of twist .
In fact the article I posted a link to , here some time back showed rifles with twists in the 1 in 110 rate .
How well a slow twist stabilizes a conical depends more on the conical and type of rifling then the twist ..

. IMO what your seeing is that you have a good load for conical in your barrel . But that’s not the load that the barrel needs for RB . So you will need to do some shooting and working on loads to find a proper load for the RB .
Now as to your question . Your not going to hurt anything by shooting both conical and RB .
What will happen though is over time your rifling will become leaded .
NO big issue . There are a number of products out there that are used to clean with , that will remove the lead from the rifling . Most any sporting goods store that has a good shooting section will have what you need . doesn’t mater if it for center fire .

For the record , I have 2 loads for my slow twist 1 in 70 ,54 cal flint lock
RB load is
Patch = .018
Lube= spit
RB .530
Powder = 80 grains 3F Goex

Now for elk up in the Hells canyon area I want alittle more hitting power at close range so I use
Conical = 435 gr Bernerd minie
Lube = Bear fat
Powder = 110 gr 3F goex

gameslayer
4X4 Bull
Posts:128
Joined:Sat Jan 03, 2009 11:37 am

Re: conicals from a round ball barrel?

Post by gameslayer » Fri Aug 21, 2009 8:44 am

I have an old 50 cal.T.C. Renegade the shoots round balls a Hornady 240 grain sabots both real well . I think it is 1 in 48 ,not every gun I have shot will do that but this on will.

User avatar
Hawg
4X4 Bull
Posts:85
Joined:Wed Feb 18, 2009 12:14 pm

Re: conicals from a round ball barrel?

Post by Hawg » Fri Aug 21, 2009 9:37 am

I have an old 50 cal.T.C. Renegade the shoots round balls a Hornady 240 grain sabots both real well . I think it is 1 in 48 ,not every gun I have shot will do that but this on will.
That's what the 1:48 twist was designed for.

Captchee, why use more powder for the conical than round ball? Most folks I know use more for a round ball.
North-1
South-0
HALFTIME!

User avatar
Captchee
Global Moderator
Posts:1831
Joined:Sun Dec 28, 2008 10:46 am
Location:Idaho
Contact:

Re: conicals from a round ball barrel?

Post by Captchee » Fri Aug 21, 2009 1:28 pm

well thats the charge that gives the best group for that conical .
see its about what gives the best result . there is no one size fits all .
80 grains just didnt cut it and produce 6 inch groups . but 110 now that right there brough the group down to 2 inches at 100 .
not as good as the RB does at 100 with 80 grains but more then satisfactory for a big conical in my barrel

User avatar
hanshi
5X5 Bull
Posts:384
Joined:Thu Apr 16, 2009 10:32 pm
Location:SE Maine
Contact:

Re: conicals from a round ball barrel?

Post by hanshi » Fri Aug 21, 2009 7:04 pm

FWIW, My .54 US M1841 has a 1-66" twist and is match accurate with prb. But it also handles maxi hunters & maxi balls very well. 2" give or take at 50 yards is no big deal for maxies from that rifle.
Young guys should hang out with old guys; old guys know stuff.

Tajue17
Raghorn Bull
Posts:38
Joined:Sun Nov 30, 2008 9:08 am

Re: conicals from a round ball barrel?

Post by Tajue17 » Sun Aug 23, 2009 9:53 am

sounds good everyone thank you!

someone mentioneed the renegade I have a couple and ours are 56. smoothies that luv 90gr swiss and round ball,,, I thought when those came out they then rifled the 56. smoothies to a 58. rifled and then called it a big bore. I didn't know they came out with a 50. so thats cool knowing that.

thanks again for the posts.

Waapialenia
Spike Bull
Posts:4
Joined:Thu Aug 20, 2009 6:30 am

Re: conicals from a round ball barrel?

Post by Waapialenia » Sun Aug 23, 2009 10:07 pm

My Hawken has a 66" twist, and I have shot the Hornady bullets with good results as a hunting load, they are very accurate. But my best load is using the Buffalo Ballets. The Hornady is 390 grains I think and the Ballets are 338 grains, I think. With the slow twist barrels, it has to do with the length of the projectile, the shorter projectiles working better in slower twists. I get my best groups on them with 100 gr of FFg. I use 120 gr for PRB, but that's what my barrel wants. Your milage may vary. The only thing I have against the Hornady bullets is their high cost.

gameslayer
4X4 Bull
Posts:128
Joined:Sat Jan 03, 2009 11:37 am

Re: conicals from a round ball barrel?

Post by gameslayer » Mon Aug 24, 2009 10:46 am

HPIM1739.JPG
I dont know if you can see this pic or not it is the 50 cal renegade it must have been a kit gun ,I gave 100 bucks for it and my wife took her first deer with it ,I think I will keep it , I have owned alot of muzzleloaders but it is the favorite even if it is ugly my wife can hit a piece of electrical 1/2x1/2tape at 25 yards with a sabot she shot her deer off of a cliff about 100 yards away and I dont care who believes it or not it shoots round balls equally as well with the sites set in the same position.

gameslayer
4X4 Bull
Posts:128
Joined:Sat Jan 03, 2009 11:37 am

Re: conicals from a round ball barrel?

Post by gameslayer » Mon Aug 24, 2009 10:49 am

the site has a white stripe in it
HPIM1742.JPG

gameslayer
4X4 Bull
Posts:128
Joined:Sat Jan 03, 2009 11:37 am

Re: conicals from a round ball barrel?

Post by gameslayer » Mon Aug 24, 2009 10:50 am

HPIM1740.JPG
UGLY , but it is a good gun .

User avatar
Hawg
4X4 Bull
Posts:85
Joined:Wed Feb 18, 2009 12:14 pm

Re: conicals from a round ball barrel?

Post by Hawg » Mon Aug 24, 2009 6:35 pm

The Renegade has a 1:48 twist so that's not surprising.

User avatar
Captchee
Global Moderator
Posts:1831
Joined:Sun Dec 28, 2008 10:46 am
Location:Idaho
Contact:

Re: conicals from a round ball barrel?

Post by Captchee » Mon Aug 24, 2009 9:07 pm

actualy , i didnt know they made the renegade in anything but 50 cal and 54 . everyone i ever saw was one of those calibers

Tajue17
Raghorn Bull
Posts:38
Joined:Sun Nov 30, 2008 9:08 am

Re: conicals from a round ball barrel?

Post by Tajue17 » Tue Sep 01, 2009 6:01 am

the 56. smoothbore (28ga) is a must have!! we use to shoot down ruffed grouse with these and then load a ball and hit another spot for deer hunting.

messerist
Spike Bull
Posts:12
Joined:Wed Apr 15, 2009 8:07 pm

Re: conicals from a round ball barrel?

Post by messerist » Sat Sep 05, 2009 7:43 am

My .50 cal Lyman's Great Plains rifle shoots Powerbelt bullets just fine. It has a 1:66 twist. I use a 295gr. powerbelt with 90gr of 3f goex. From a bench at 100 yds they group at 2-3". I'm gonna buy some Buffalo bullets and give 'em a try.

User avatar
mfwing82
4X4 Bull
Posts:72
Joined:Sat Feb 21, 2009 7:55 pm
Location:south eastern Pa.

Re: conicals from a round ball barrel?

Post by mfwing82 » Sat Sep 05, 2009 10:53 am

would love to have a 56 smooth bore for my renegade want to sell barrel?

User avatar
hanshi
5X5 Bull
Posts:384
Joined:Thu Apr 16, 2009 10:32 pm
Location:SE Maine
Contact:

Re: conicals from a round ball barrel?

Post by hanshi » Sat Sep 05, 2009 4:43 pm

I prefer prb but have found T/C Maxis shoot quite well in my US M1841 .54 with 1 - 66" twist.
Young guys should hang out with old guys; old guys know stuff.

User avatar
GreenMtnHunter
Raghorn Bull
Posts:68
Joined:Fri Apr 03, 2009 12:15 pm
Location:Southern Vermont

Re: conicals from a round ball barrel?

Post by GreenMtnHunter » Wed Sep 09, 2009 8:17 am

gameslayer wrote:
HPIM1740.JPG
UGLY , but it is a good gun .
Eye of the beholder, I guess....I love the looks of my .56. , doesn't hurt that she shoots sweet too!
If you're lookin' for the barrel or the gun, try focusing in Mass. Years ago the .56 was all that was allowed down there. When sportsmen's groups finally got the laws changes to allow rifled barrels for ML's, the 56 became a $100 gun overnight. A friend tried to sell his last year and finally "gave" it away for 50. Had I realized he was selling, I'd own it too! Last spring I saw a couple at a local (NH) store.....

am I allowed to post the name of a business?

I haven't been there since early June....
NAHC-LM; NRA-Instructor, Range officer, NSSA, ATA

User avatar
Captchee
Global Moderator
Posts:1831
Joined:Sun Dec 28, 2008 10:46 am
Location:Idaho
Contact:

Re: conicals from a round ball barrel?

Post by Captchee » Wed Sep 09, 2009 8:33 am

am I allowed to post the name of a business?
i might be stepping on myself here , but i would think it would be ok as long as its not a solicitation or advertisement.
Im thinking you are just wanting to give the name and address of the shop that has the 56 ?.
I cant see any harm in that so as to help out a fello member find what they are looking for

User avatar
GreenMtnHunter
Raghorn Bull
Posts:68
Joined:Fri Apr 03, 2009 12:15 pm
Location:Southern Vermont

Re: conicals from a round ball barrel?

Post by GreenMtnHunter » Wed Sep 09, 2009 8:38 pm

Ok, Thanks Captchee,
I have seen several TC 56's at a place called Trader John's in Winchester NH. It was late spring/early summer and I don't recall pricing. It'll come up if you google it.
NAHC-LM; NRA-Instructor, Range officer, NSSA, ATA

Pietro
Spike Bull
Posts:25
Joined:Sat Sep 26, 2009 12:39 pm
Location:Southern New England

Re: conicals from a round ball barrel?

Post by Pietro » Sat Sep 26, 2009 12:56 pm

I'm from a state that mandated a smoothbore, when a muzzleloading deer season was first authorized by our Fish & Game Dept - and still have my .56SB T/C Renegade, in almost new condition, after all these years.
Mostly because I haven't used it since rifles muzzleloaders were allowed.

Image

.

Post Reply