The Antique Archery Arsenal

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Re: The Antique Archery Arsenal

Postby Cody Roiter » Wed Nov 11, 2009 2:14 pm

Guys I have seen these display I dont know how many times.. But every time I seen them and or photo its makes say WOW.... Wade these are not all your display are they ?? dont you a display on your 1959 Kods ??.. Or was that something you made up fast there at Comptons ?..

Very Nice once agin Wade,

Cody
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Re: The Antique Archery Arsenal

Postby Wade Phillips » Wed Nov 11, 2009 10:02 pm

Cody,

Just haven't had time to load photos of all the individual display cases. The bow displays at Compton were just some bows from the racks on the wall that I put in the cases so I could take the bows with me. I rotate something different to put in those cases. Next year will probably take 1960 Kodiaks, Kodiak Deluxes, and Kodiak Special Deluxes, as it will be the 50th Anniversary for them. Just not possible to take everything to any show.
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Re: The Antique Archery Arsenal

Postby Whitewolf » Wed Nov 11, 2009 10:46 pm

I am absolutely amazed at the amount of time and dedication you spent preserving history. Thank you.
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Re: The Antique Archery Arsenal

Postby BobT » Thu Nov 12, 2009 1:48 am

Thanks Wade!

I sure am glad to see you and the other guys over here! :mrgreen:

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Re: The Antique Archery Arsenal

Postby Wade Phillips » Thu Nov 12, 2009 4:27 am

Whitewolf - Its been a lot of fun accumulating and documenting these items over the years.

Bob - Glad to see you here too.
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Re: The Antique Archery Arsenal

Postby Wade Phillips » Thu Nov 12, 2009 5:02 am

Just added this Fish Point photograph to those on first page...

Old photograph needs to be retaken... Case is one from the famous Eccleston Broadhead Collection. After broadheads were removed, I took the case completely apart and totally refurbished it, then used for fish points. Display needs to be expanded.

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Re: The Antique Archery Arsenal

Postby Seneca Archer » Thu Nov 12, 2009 6:01 pm

Wade,

what an awesome collection. put me on your list for a future "museum tour"!

in one of the pics showing the Grumly bows, in the lower right foreground there is a wood post w/ a dog-leg K-mag and what appears to be a LH K-Hunter early 70's vintage. Knowing your right- handed and that K-Hunters are not the most sought after Bears, I'm curious if there is something unique or special about that particular one?

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Re: The Antique Archery Arsenal

Postby Wade Phillips » Thu Nov 12, 2009 7:12 pm

Jim,

I'm not certain, but believe you may be talking about the Floor Lamp made of 3 Dogleg Kodiak Magnums... The lamp was made by Floyd Eccleston and was his personal lamp that was in his shop from 1963 until August 2008, 46 years. The bow facing the camera is left hand has you say. These three bows each have two holes drilled in them. Top hole attaches the upper limb to the diamond willow center piece, the bottom hole attaches the tip of the lower limb to the wooden base of the lamp. I don't believe these bows would be long term shooters with the holes in them, especially the left hand bow as it is a type I Dogleg....

Is this the left hand bow you were talking about in the other photograph?

I can not think of a Kodiak Hunter here anywhere. The one that was in a collection I bought last year, was sold earlier this year.

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Re: The Antique Archery Arsenal

Postby Seneca Archer » Thu Nov 12, 2009 8:32 pm

Wade,

Ahhh my bad it's not a K-Hunter...yes that's the lefty I was talking about.

LOL I was so busy looking at the bows I didn't notice the lamp shade above.

Thanks for the info.....cool lamp...a trifle more expensive than the typical IKEA floorlamp I would reckon.....

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Re: The Antique Archery Arsenal

Postby Wade Phillips » Thu Nov 12, 2009 8:50 pm

Seneca Archer wrote:Wade,

.....cool lamp...a trifle more expensive than the typical IKEA floorlamp I would reckon.....

Jim U


Jim, Yes, you are correct. I saw one of Floyd's Dogleg Kodiak Magnums sell a few years ago on eBay. Don't remember the exact price but believe it was somewhere just under $1,000. There are a few of Floyd's Dogleg Lamps around, but they don't change hands very often.

For some reason, other collectors who own Type I & II Dogleg Magnums, just don't want to drill holes in them and make them into lamps....
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Re: The Antique Archery Arsenal

Postby Seneca Archer » Fri Nov 13, 2009 11:14 pm

Wade,
This is a great thread....I keep coming back and looking and always something different catches my eye...

A question and a request...

First the question...in the background of one of the your posted pictures are several pictures of guys holding fish...were the fish all taken w/ a bowfishing rig?

The request...when you get a minute would you mind giving us a better look at those St Charles baleen-backed bows, and especially (for me anyway) those T-Birds.
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Re: The Antique Archery Arsenal

Postby Wade Phillips » Sat Nov 14, 2009 12:49 am

Jim,

I guess the only photographs of fish in the background are some of the larger paddlefish that I took out of the Missouri River, north of here, mostly in the 1970s, some with an old Bear Kodiak Magnum and some snagging. Daily limit was 2 and possession 4 per person. Over the years we got a lot of them. Great eating and fun to shoot in the summer. Then they cut back on the limits until now it is just one per year by special drawing. Last weekend my Dad gave me a 1975 set of Nebraska Fishing Regulations that he had in a drawer. I believe at that time it was still legal to shoot any game fish with the bow at any time. That has all become very restricted too. Guess everything changes with time some better, some not. Actually the deer bag limits now are more liberal than ever.

Just working on re-doing the the St Charles bows again in a different case. A few days ago put them in one case, but did not look good so removed them and put them back in the old case a little differently. But too many bows for the space, so left some out. Will re-do it in a larger case. May get it done this next week and will post some photographs. Have another Grumley case torn up right now. Never ending when re-arranging.
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Re: The Antique Archery Arsenal

Postby Wade Phillips » Sat Nov 14, 2009 9:14 am

Just finished getting these Grumley bows in this case first thing this morning. Still need to add text and fill up the old holes. For us crazy collectors, care, organizing, sorting, consolidating, re-arranging and documenting displays is never ending project....

Left Side - mid 1940s Grumley Bows, fortisan backed 3-lam hickory, yew, osage with dark tips.
Right Side - mid 1940s Grumley Bows, marcata backed 3-lam hickory, yew, osage with light tips.
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Re: The Antique Archery Arsenal

Postby Seneca Archer » Sat Nov 14, 2009 12:21 pm

Nice fish Wade!!! Ahh those halcyon days of yore..... :)

No hurry on the St Charles' bows, thanks in advance.

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Re: The Antique Archery Arsenal

Postby Wade Phillips » Sat Nov 14, 2009 2:03 pm

Jim asked to see some of Glenn's Baleen bows so thought it might be a good idea to start a new thread just about Glenn's Baleen bows so everyone can post photographs of their St. Charles Baleen bows.

Here are four of Glenn's 1948 Baleen bows. At the bottom is a three foot end piece a Baleen Fond with the hair still attached.

Click on image once to enlarge, click a second time to zoom in...
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Re: The Antique Archery Arsenal

Postby Wade Phillips » Sat Nov 14, 2009 2:05 pm

Looks like I goofed up and posted the St. Charles Baleen Thread under Traditional Archery so will post the photos here again...

Maybe Bryan can delete the other thread or move it to the History Forum. Sorry for my incompetence...

A close up of the Baleen Bows...

Click on image once to enlarge, click a second time to zoom in...
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Re: The Antique Archery Arsenal

Postby mooseman1967 » Mon Nov 16, 2009 5:41 pm

WOW Wade, I have got to come up and see collection sometime and make it right with ya for the deadheads you sent me. I have no excuse since I'm only 90 miles away. I think next weekend I'm taking that bronco up to Frank I'll have to get in touch with ya.
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Re: The Antique Archery Arsenal

Postby Wade Phillips » Mon Nov 16, 2009 6:16 pm

Dave - Come over anytime. Try to give me a day to two notice so I can be sure to be here. Frank told me that you killed a turkey with one of these Deadheads I sent to you. I still have a few Deadheads left, but you will have to come over to get more, that is if you want more.
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Re: The Antique Archery Arsenal

Postby mooseman1967 » Mon Nov 16, 2009 10:20 pm

You can bet I do Wade! I had no problem getting them to tune for me but as usual I have modified a little chopper to be about a 5 3/4" shield cut on my feathers. I'll call ya about thursday if I'm headed that way on the weekend. Also got a little buck 3 days before rifle season with one. That was a devestating 2 holes it made. It put my concerns to rest about penetration as long as ya hit em in the right spot. There's some pics over on the traditional harvest thread under "my season so far"
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Re: The Antique Archery Arsenal

Postby Seneca Archer » Tue Nov 17, 2009 6:56 pm

Wade,
Those St Charles Baleen bows are indeed quite attractive. Is the wood Pacific yew? Is the baleen one uniform piece per limb or is it overlapped/spliced?

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Re: The Antique Archery Arsenal

Postby Wade Phillips » Wed Nov 18, 2009 12:31 am

Dave - Great going on taking the buck with the Deadhead. If you are heading our way, be sure to give a call about Thursday and let us know when you will be here.

Jim - Yes, the wood is Pacific Yew.

I've never seen the leather grip off of one of the baleen bows to say for sure, but I'd have to guess the back of the bow has two pieces of baleen that are overlapped under the leather grip.
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Re: The Antique Archery Arsenal

Postby bowdoc » Wed Nov 18, 2009 6:50 am

Oh yeah Pac-Yew for sure and there may have been the rare Osage model as well.I kind of think some of Glenn's bows were one peice of baleen.I've seen it up to or around 6-7 feet long and I believe the piece on display in the P&Y mus is even a bit longer then that bigger whales bigger baleen bd
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Re: The Antique Archery Arsenal

Postby Wade Phillips » Wed Nov 18, 2009 9:58 am

Doc - Yes, all of the Baleen Fronds I have ever seen are well over 6 feet long. When I got the one I have, it was longer then the six foot display case with Glenn's bows so I cut a 3 foot section off the large end so I could split that in half lengthwise and use the two pieces to make a bow. Then of course, but the narrow end in the display and later had Glenn sign it.

The only reason I would guess the frond is two pieces rather than one piece is that the thickness of the Baleen naturally tapers down as it nears the pointed end. If a single length was was used, the thickness would be much thicker at one end than the other. The thickness would have to be cut down to be consistent (or double tapered) the full length of the piece.

If a single 3 foot piece was split lengthwise, one piece could be reversed and two butted together or overlapped under the leather grip. Both pieces would have the same identical taper and there would be little need spend a lot of time altering the natural taper of the baleen. But then it may be possible to simply run the 6 foot piece through a sander or planer and easily make whatever thickness is desired.

My logic for using the Baleen is similar in principle to cutting a three foot chunk of yew lengthwise to make billets and splicing the two together to make a bow.

I'll have to examine the Baleen bows more closely to try to determine if they are one or two pieces.

Will let you know if I can determine anything after examining them.
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Re: The Antique Archery Arsenal

Postby Wade Phillips » Wed Nov 18, 2009 11:09 am

Doc - Here is a photograph of the back of one of Glenn's Baleen bows...

This is an ideal example as the Baleen has distinct grain that is visible through the gray and black coloration. If you click on the photograph to enlarge it, you can see on the lower limb at bottom, the grain flows from left to right, but the upper limb at top the grain flows the opposite direction from right to left. This is conclusive proof that the back is two different pieces of Baleen.

Note the crack in the lower limb follows the grain from left to right and the crack in the upper limb also follows the grain from right to left.

I don't really want to remove the grip from this bow as it is all original. I don't believe there is any doubt that this bow has two pieces of Baleen on the back.

Does anyone believe that it is a single continuous piece?

By no means does a single bow, or group of four bows mean that every one of Glenn's Baleen bows has two pieces on the back. Way to small of a sample size to come to be able to make that statement.
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Re: The Antique Archery Arsenal

Postby Seneca Archer » Wed Nov 18, 2009 6:35 pm

Wade,

Very interesting. Thanks for sharing the insight into your deductive reasoning re: the baleen backing.

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Re: The Antique Archery Arsenal

Postby Wade Phillips » Wed Nov 18, 2009 7:43 pm

Curiosity generally gets the best of me of me every time...

Sooooo, I just had to open up the leather grip on one of Glenn's Baleen bows...

The victim selected was the bow on the top of the photograph of the four Baleen bows. It has a suede grip that overlaps on the side opposite the shelf. It appeared to be the leather grip that could be opened up easily and put back to the original condition and cause no damage... The other bows have grips of stiffer leather that might be damaged if peeled back.
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Re: The Antique Archery Arsenal

Postby Wade Phillips » Wed Nov 18, 2009 7:47 pm

The overlap of the leather grip was opened up carefully. Surprisingly, the center area is actaully a leather filler, not Baleen. Carefully, the leather filler was lifted up with the point of a knife
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Re: The Antique Archery Arsenal

Postby Wade Phillips » Wed Nov 18, 2009 7:50 pm

The leather fillers are pulled back revealing a gap of 1-5/8" between the ends of the two pieces of Baleen....
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Re: The Antique Archery Arsenal

Postby Wade Phillips » Wed Nov 18, 2009 7:52 pm

Oh... the things you can find under those leather grips.... They might just surprise you ,and everybody else...
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Re: The Antique Archery Arsenal

Postby Seneca Archer » Wed Nov 18, 2009 8:14 pm

WOW!! Not sure I woulda had the cajones to do that :!: .. :!: :!: :!: .......but again very interesting. So I'm guessing when braced and fully drawn these bows do not bend in the handle, otherwise undue stress on those ends glued down at the handle?

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