Kodiak - Identification Guide 1950-1966

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Re: Kodiak - Identification Guide 1950-1966

Postby bowdoc » Tue Dec 15, 2009 11:07 am

The only thing that really pissed me of about the no overlay model was when it did come up for auction prices were pretty high at that time and I bid about 750.00 did not make reserve and then I never seen it surface again.I'll check my notes and see if I can find out where its at today and maybe we could at least get him to email a couple pics of the darn thing.Funny thing was I personally did not think that bow was all that rare until I've never seen another one before or since.That may have been the only one in captivity.bd
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Re: Kodiak - Identification Guide 1950-1966

Postby Trap » Tue Dec 15, 2009 6:23 pm

What was the sight window wood on the "no overlay" Kodiak?

Was it a very early dark rosewood or a PH that someone just forgot to add an overlay too?

I always thought the 59 Grizzly would be even cooler if it had some black and white riser overlays.

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Re: Kodiak - Identification Guide 1950-1966

Postby Wade Phillips » Tue Dec 15, 2009 6:47 pm

Trap - I don't remember the serial number on the "no overlay" Kodiak, but it had a purple heart sight window. Who knows what happened, maybe someone just missed putting them on one bow, or maybe they ran short of overlay material, or maybe they were trying to cut costs, or maybe they were so far behind in production that they tried to reduce labor. There could be a thousand and one reasons, that we haven't thought of yet. Whatever the reason, I think everyone will agree, it is great that most of the 1959 Kodiaks do have overlays on the riser.

The "no overlay" bow was all original when I bought it and was in nice condition.

I just hope someone didn't rip the grip off of it and put overlays on it to dress it up... you never know. That would be a shame.

I agree that the 59 Grizzly would be even cooler if it had black and white riser overlays.

I've always thought that if it had dark brown glass on the back rather than pea soup green glass, it would be even cooler yet.
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Re: Kodiak - Identification Guide 1950-1966

Postby Trap » Tue Dec 15, 2009 9:23 pm

And you traded that bow....Why???

I bet that's one you wish you had back, then again, you may have gotten something even rarer for it.

Ahhhhh, can't have em all ;)

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Re: Kodiak - Identification Guide 1950-1966

Postby Wade Phillips » Tue Dec 15, 2009 10:35 pm

Trap wrote:And you traded that bow....Why???

I bet that's one you wish you had back, then again, you may have gotten something even rarer for it.

Ahhhhh, can't have em all ;)

Trap


Trap - I can't really give you a legitimate reason why I traded off that bow other than to say that it really didn't fit in with my Kodiak display at that point in time... That was many years ago. And as you know... Times can change !!!

I don't even remember what the heck I got for it, so I sure can't say that what I got was rarer.

You are correct, nobody has them all.

Yes, I do wish I could get it back. I don't even know who has it now.

Anyone who has been collecting vintage archery tackle for 20 or 30 years or more, can probably look back at a few items and wonder how they could have let them go.

Over the years, I've made a few ridiculous trades that were just plain crazy on my part. Don't believe I was sober when I made any of those trades.

Hey... All collectors are Crazy !!!
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Re: Kodiak - Identification Guide 1950-1966

Postby Trap » Tue Dec 15, 2009 11:34 pm

"Anyone who has been collecting vintage archery tackle for 20 or 30 years or more, can probably look back at a few items and wonder how they could have let them go."

I hear that. There's a couple I'd like to get back.

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Re: Kodiak - Identification Guide 1950-1966

Postby scattershot » Wed Dec 16, 2009 11:57 pm

Great info, Wade. Thanks for posting. Have you ever seen a serial number like this?
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Re: Kodiak - Identification Guide 1950-1966

Postby bowdoc » Thu Dec 17, 2009 6:57 am

holy balls I look back and ask myself what in the hell was I thinking ? I guess I was'nt
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Re: Kodiak - Identification Guide 1950-1966

Postby Wade Phillips » Thu Dec 17, 2009 8:34 am

Doc - I've seen you turn loose of several great items over the years. We all have our priorities at the time we turn loose of something.

Hey, look at it this way, at some point, we will all turn loose of all the items we have ever owned.

scattershot wrote:Great info, Wade. Thanks for posting. Have you ever seen a serial number like this?
GeneImage


Gene - Thanks for posting the photograph of the serial number of your 64" 1966 Kodiak.

Yours has the same first number and first letter as a 64" 1966 that I have, 6S 1415.

Sorry to say, but the limited information from Bear documenting factory serial numbering patterns from year end to year end, does not include a serial number sequence like yours for 1966.

I almost hate to say this, but I don't record every serial number variation that I run into.

Part of the reason is that I don't put much store in serial numbers simply because anything could have been accidentally or intentionally written on any bow, by anyone, at any point in time, for any reason.

The other major part of the reason that I never recorded every odd serial number is that the late Al Reader was a serial number fanatic, and for decades he religiously recorded and tracked serial numbers for Bear Bows. Al probably had more answers and theories about Bear serial numbers and serial numbering sequences than every other Bear bow collector combined that I've ever met.

My real interest in variations has always been the variations of the construction of the bows as opposed to what was written on them.

When I had occasional odd ball serial number questions, I talked with Al about them. Now that Al is gone, I've found myself spending more time than ever on serial numbers.
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Re: Kodiak - Identification Guide 1950-1966

Postby bowdoc » Thu Dec 17, 2009 9:51 am

Gene one thought on your bow is it may have been custom ordered as per draw weight or bow length.
Wade I may have located the no overlay bow once again I'am waiting on a call back from the now owner.
Holy smokes when I think back on some deals I've made on archery tackle over the years its spooky buying selling trading whatever.My wife keeps asking me if I'll ever get our first born son back.I keep telling her not unless she finds a good 1960 Kodiak Deluxe she'll trade for him.
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Re: Kodiak - Identification Guide 1950-1966

Postby scattershot » Fri Dec 18, 2009 12:34 am

Well, I guess it will remain a mystery. Thanks for the info.

Doc, I'll get the bow off to you after the first of the year for a refinish. Do you think it would be a sacrelige to reduce the weight at the same time? I'm not a collector, but I may want to sell the bow at some point.

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Re: Kodiak - Identification Guide 1950-1966

Postby Wade Phillips » Fri Dec 18, 2009 2:05 pm

Doc -

Be sure to post some images of the no over lay 59 Kodiak if you locate it.
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Re: Kodiak - Identification Guide 1950-1966

Postby bowdoc » Sat Dec 19, 2009 6:20 am

Before I say for sure the weight could be reduced I kind of like to look them over.We'll chat on the phone before any work starts.I will keep you posted on the no overlay but I have not got an email back as yet.
One other thing I have going is I have like 3-4 1959 Kodiaks + around 20 other bows I'am working on right now.I may try and add a little restoration thread on some of the work.I've not gotten much bow work done the last couple months due to what ever reasons cause us to not get our work done but things are almost back to normal and I'll try and get some pics up later today.
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Re: Kodiak - Identification Guide 1950-1966

Postby Wade Phillips » Sat Dec 19, 2009 9:20 am

Doc - If you are going to do another restoration thread, you will have to have at least one or two 1960 Kodiaks in the mix, it just wouldn't right not to have some 50th Birthday bows in the mix...

I'll dig around this morning and come up with a couple of good candidates for you to work your magic on...
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Re: Kodiak - Identification Guide 1950-1966

Postby bowdoc » Sat Dec 19, 2009 11:55 am

oh yeah the 1960's would be for 2010 restoration thread and thier 50th birthday.I should have these 1959's done and headed home soon.That will make room for the 60's..
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Re: Kodiak - Identification Guide 1950-1966

Postby Jeremy » Mon Dec 21, 2009 10:04 am

The Polar ID thread jogged my memory about something regarding two '58 Kodiaks I was shooting and I figure this is the better place to ask, so...

Is there more than one limb profile for the '58 Kodiaks? Obviously there are different lengths, but what about different profiles of the same length? I was shooting a '58 the other month that seemed noticably different than my old '58 Kodiak.
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Re: Kodiak - Identification Guide 1950-1966

Postby Wade Phillips » Mon Dec 21, 2009 11:46 am

Jeremy - I posted this on the Polar ID thread, but thought I'd post it again here so the answer will be on the same thread as the question.

The 1958 Kodiaks can be a little confusing.

There are actually 3 different white glass Kodiaks. The first was built on the 1957 Kodiak form, and is really a white glass 1957 Kodiak. If you look at page 6 of the 1958 Bear Catalog, it is the unstrug bow in the lower left corner, and has the limb profile and riser profile of a 1957 Kodiak.

The strung bow on that same page is 1958 Sow Belly, with a scalloped sight window corner. The Sow Belly riser profile and limb profile are both noticeably different than the white glass 1957 Kodiak limb profile.

The Sow Belly was first (and briefly) made with a scalloped sight window corner as shown in the catalog, then, most were made with the rounded sight window corner.

I presently have three 60" Sow Belly Kodiaks, with slightly different degrees of recurve.

These minor differences in limb profile can be explained in the fact that Bear had multiple bow forms for the same model and length bow. Not all of the forms were precisely and exactly the same. Some very slight variation is understandable. Also, even these 1950s fiberglass recurves and semi-recurves can take a little set.

Hope I haven't confused you with this rambling and lengthy explanation.
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Re: Kodiak - Identification Guide 1950-1966

Postby TimberlineX » Tue Jan 05, 2010 1:24 pm

TTT
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Re: Kodiak - Identification Guide 1950-1966

Postby Wade Phillips » Tue Jan 05, 2010 4:29 pm

Bill -

Just edited the text a bit for the 1959 and 1960 Kodiaks...
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Re: Kodiak - Identification Guide 1950-1966

Postby Wade Phillips » Thu Feb 04, 2010 7:25 pm

Now that Bryan brought this thread back up to the top, I read over the Identification part for errors... Found a number of things that I deleted and others that I added. Hopefully it is more clear now.

Naturally, I discovered that 56" needed to be added to the 1959 Maple Sight Window now that one was discovered in January 2010 in Ohio, sold to a guy in Pennsylvania, then found its way to the Arsenal.

Let me know if anyone sees any other omissions or changes that should be made.
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Re: Kodiak - Identification Guide 1950-1966

Postby oldpawn59 » Sun Mar 13, 2011 7:12 pm

Wade Phillips, I can account for 1 more 1959 kodiak w/rosewoodriser slabs over over Babinga I-beam 60" x65lb. , srerial # BF8476. All original tip overlays, feather rest, finish, - missing leather grip and has replacementleather strike plate with darker colored leather then what you have pictured-but has the 5 lines on plate. Michael ( oldpawn59 )
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Re: Kodiak - Identification Guide 1950-1966

Postby manybows » Thu May 05, 2011 11:52 am

Heres another 1959 64" kodiak 50 LBS with dark rosewood slab, serial # is DB761B.
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1959 Kodiak 64 003.jpg
1959 Kodiak with dark rosewood slab
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Re: Kodiak - Identification Guide 1950-1966

Postby Wade Phillips » Sat May 07, 2011 4:51 pm

Wade Phillips wrote:
manybows wrote:Heres another 1959 64" kodiak 50 LBS with dark rosewood slab, serial # is DB761B.


manybows - If you pull up the corner of the 5-line strike plate I am certain that you will discover the wood in your I-Beam is really purpleheart.

Although your I-Beam looks very dark, I am certain that it is not the dark rosewood. Two dead give aways are the grain of the wood and the color.

If you have a 1958 Kodiak Special, compare the dark Rosewood sight window to your 1959 Kodiak, you will see the difference.

Some of the 1959 Kodiak purpleheart sight windows get dark and really loose their purple color when exposed to the light of day, but the underside of the strike plate is a very different color that is easliy recognizable as purpleheart....
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Re: Kodiak - Identification Guide 1950-1966

Postby manybows » Mon May 09, 2011 4:59 pm

Wade, great idea,I pulled the sight window off and its not purpleheart, way to brown not even a hint of purple or red at all, its just a shade or two lighter under there so I am assuming its rosewood. The grain on the riser is tight almost like babinga but is almost blondish in color. Thanks . Ron.
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Re: Kodiak - Identification Guide 1950-1966

Postby hayslope » Tue Jun 14, 2011 11:07 am

At the BBTC trade blanket, I spied a guy carrying a couple of bows and a rolled up blanket. One of the bows looked like a '59 Kodiak, but something about it screamed "different". I followed him until he found a suitable spot to lay out his blanket. I offered to hold the "59 while he got set up. As I stared at it, I recalled Wade's comment earlier in this post about bubinga sight window '59s: "I have only ever seen two. Both were refinished." I was pretty positive it was bubinga and it had been refinished. The guy told me he followed Bowdoc's refinish instructions and that his daughter had been shooting it (it was strung when he carried it in). After a short while, we came to agreement on price and it was mine. Rich Lopez showed up seconds later and confirmed that it was, in fact, a bubinga sight window.

BG701 60" 45#

Image

The photos are a bit dark, but you get the idea. The bubinga doesn't have quite the figure that Wade's has, but I was just happy to actually find one.

Image

The previous owner didn't bother to replace the decals, but I figure it's a candidate for a re-refinish, given how rare it is. And, on top of it, it shoots great.

One neat thing about it. There appears to be very thin laminations of purpleheart between the maple lams and the bubinga. I figure had it not been freshly refinished, you would never have known it because the purpleheart would have turned brown and blended in. Wade - does yours have these thin PH laminations?
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Re: Kodiak - Identification Guide 1950-1966

Postby wadde » Thu Jun 30, 2011 9:22 pm

I recently acquired a 64" 50# Bubinga sight window 59. Real dark and almost matches the rosewood riser.
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