Possible "One of a Kind Pre-1966 Bear Items"

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Re: Possible "One of a Kind Pre-1966 Bear Items"

Post by Wade Phillips » Thu Feb 25, 2010 7:49 pm

Ron - Great photograph.

Fred's bow is a 1969 Bear Take Down.
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Re: Possible "One of a Kind Pre-1966 Bear Items"

Post by Trap » Thu Feb 25, 2010 9:12 pm

Cool Thread from start to present!!!!!

Thanks for sharing guys, Trap
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Re: Possible "One of a Kind Pre-1966 Bear Items"

Post by Wade Phillips » Thu Feb 25, 2010 9:23 pm

This Red Glass 1955 Kodiak, 60", 51 is the only one of its kind that I have ever seen or heard of. It is the same Red Glass used on the Polar in 1955, and other years.

At Compton one year, I had Charlie Kroll sign it in the sight window.
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55 Red Glass Kodiak 003.jpg
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Re: Possible "One of a Kind Pre-1966 Bear Items"

Post by bowhunterfrompast » Thu Feb 25, 2010 9:30 pm

Trap wrote:Cool Thread from start to present!!!!!

Thanks for sharing guys, Trap
Trap..great idea! It's great seeing all of these "One of a Kind".
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Re: Possible "One of a Kind Pre-1966 Bear Items"

Post by Wade Phillips » Mon Mar 01, 2010 12:58 pm

The only Take-Down, Snakeskin Back, Bear Products by Grumley presently known in captivity... It has a Barney Grenier Hinge with its precision bank vault moment.
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Snakeskin Back Grumley TD 002.jpg
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Re: Possible "One of a Kind Pre-1966 Bear Items"

Post by John D Kabisa » Tue Mar 02, 2010 11:13 am

Here's another cool old K-4 I aquired many years ago.I had just gotten into collecting and was still pretty green behind the ears(I still am alot of the time).I went to this guys house and he has this K-4 out on a table for sale along with a few other bows.I had seen a few K-4's by then but nothing like this one.Overall it looked to be an aluminum laminated K-4 static Kodiak made by Bear,but as I looked it over a little closer I was baffled.It had all the right decals on it,the small running bear,the "Kodiak" decal and the pat.pend. decal,woven glass backing,tip overlays,but the grip,shelf,and serial number didn't look right.The grip was wrapped like a tennis racket and the shelf was much smaller than any K-4 I had ever seen.And I knew there were three different lengths of K-4 and the old static Kodiaks were always marked with a K-2,K-4,or K-6 to indicate the length.This bow was simply marked K59,51#/@28".I found this odd.I figured someone had,at some time,cut down the wide shelf and re-wrapped the grip and wrote the specs on it themselves.Back then as now,I always preferred bows that were unaltered and 100% original for my collection.I didn't want filled holes or matte finish,altered grips,or altered anything.I came very close to not buying this bow because I thought it wasn't original.Thankfully I changed my mind.
But since then,I believe that is how this bow was made since day one.Possibly made by another one of Bear's early bowyers Bob Meaker.Bob worked for Bear in Detroit and made the move to Grayling along with Nels Grumley.Bob never got the attention that Nels did as far as his bowmaking skills.I have since owned two other later Bear bows with a tennis racket style grip,and many years ago I believe i saw another K-4 similar to this one but I don't know who has it now.Perhaps if the owner sees this thread he could post pics for comparison.Either way it is definitely an odd-ball K-4
Meaker K-4 grip shelf.JPG
Last edited by John D Kabisa on Tue Mar 02, 2010 11:24 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Possible "One of a Kind Pre-1966 Bear Items"

Post by John D Kabisa » Tue Mar 02, 2010 11:20 am

Here are a few more pics of the K59 marked K-4.Here's the other side of the grip with factory quiver bushing:
Meaker K-4 grip other.JPG
Here is a picture comparing the K59 Kodiak grip and a standard aluminum lam K-4:
Meaker and signed K-4 grip comparison.JPG
Here's a picture showing the odd serial number and weight markings compared to the same standard K-4:
Meaker and signed K-4 serial numbers.JPG
Has all the standard decals of that period:
Meaker K-4 running bear decal.JPG
Meaker K-4 KODIAK decal.JPG

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Re: Possible "One of a Kind Pre-1966 Bear Items"

Post by Wade Phillips » Tue Mar 02, 2010 11:31 am

John - Are you certain the tennis wrap grip bow is a 64" K-4 and not a 62" K-2.

I have one with the same grip and aluminum lam that is a 62" K-2.
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Re: Possible "One of a Kind Pre-1966 Bear Items"

Post by John D Kabisa » Tue Mar 02, 2010 12:00 pm

Wade- That tennis wrapped grip K-4 I have is the same length side by side as a marked K-4 I have so I would say it is indeed a 64" static Kodiak.Perhaps you have the other one I had seen.Seems like the leather grip was wrapped with a sort of reddish colored leather if I remember correctly.I think Lonnie owned it at one time as well as Cliff Amey.Please post some pics of yours.

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Re: Possible "One of a Kind Pre-1966 Bear Items"

Post by Wade Phillips » Tue Mar 02, 2010 12:26 pm

John - I remember seeing your tennis wrap grip in 2005? at Compton and thinking it was a K-2 like mine. Yes, I got the tennis wrapped grip K-2 from Lonnie when he stayed here several years ago.

Nice to get the facts straight and to know that your tennis warp grip is a K-4.

Well then, the bottom two bows in the photograph below are the only two 1950, K-2s that I have ever heard of.

Never thought to post either as a one of a kind especially since I thought you had a tennis wrap K-2.

Because they have slightly different size grips, guess you could say both are possible one of a kinds....
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1950 K-2s 007.jpg
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Re: Possible "One of a Kind Pre-1966 Bear Items"

Post by John D Kabisa » Tue Mar 02, 2010 1:01 pm

Yup,that's the bow I remember seeing years ago.I believe my buddy Cliff Amey had it before Lonnie,I'll have to ask him.It also looks like your specs are written similar to mine although they are a bit hard to read.I see the slash mark / between the weight and the draw length similar to my bow.Pretty cool pair.Now we need to find a K-6 aluminum lam with a tennis wrap grip to complete the set.Bet you find it before I do.

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Re: Possible "One of a Kind Pre-1966 Bear Items"

Post by Wade Phillips » Tue Mar 02, 2010 2:06 pm

John - Yes the numbers on the tennis wrap grip K-2 are a bit worn, but like your K-4.

The small grip is just one step beyond the experimental Kodiaks that Bob Meaker made from the Grizzly.

The K-6 Alum Lam is not quite as rare as the K-2 Alum Lam. Although I've seen a few 1950 K-6s, have never seen one with the tennis wrap grip.

Until one surfaces, it would be speculative to say that any are in existence.
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Re: Possible "One of a Kind Pre-1966 Bear Items"

Post by John D Kabisa » Fri Mar 05, 2010 1:27 pm

Here's another possible one-of-a-kind K-4.I picked this one up several years ago just outside of Grayling.It has finger grooves on the grip under the leather and the leather appears to be original to the bow.I have yet to see another Kodiak with the finger grooves in the grip although I know Wade has a Grumley bow with the grooves.Both possibly one-of-a-kind.
static K-4 with finger grooves all.JPG
static K-4 with finger grooves shelf.JPG
static K-4 with finger grooves other.JPG

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Re: Possible "One of a Kind Pre-1966 Bear Items"

Post by Wade Phillips » Mon Mar 08, 2010 9:01 pm

John D Kabisa wrote: ... I know Wade has a Grumley bow with the grooves....


John - I actually have two Grumley bows with finger grooves.

Also have a 1950 Alum Lam Kodiak with finger grooves. It is left handed.

Have a couple of fairly questions for you as there were not many old LH shooters ....

1. Who was the previous owner of this 1950 LH Finger Groove Kodiak?

2. Who was the original owner of this 1950 LH Finger Groove Kodiak?
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Re: Possible "One of a Kind Pre-1966 Bear Items"

Post by John D Kabisa » Tue Mar 09, 2010 12:39 am

Wade- Very nice K-4 with the grooves.I will say the previous owner was Floyd Eccelston and the original owner was Fred Bear.Bob Meaker?I don't know if Bob was a lefty or nor for sure.If neither of those two,how about Glenn St. Charles as an original owner.I love this stuff!!!

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Re: Possible "One of a Kind Pre-1966 Bear Items"

Post by John D Kabisa » Tue Mar 09, 2010 11:54 am

Here's a few pics I just took of a really cool Kodiak Special.This bow was another out of R & D at Bear.It's got all these little alternating wedges glued into the laminations.It's hard to really see how cool this looks unless you see the whole bow in person.Must have not been very cost effective so Bear scrapped the idea I imagine.I haven't seen another one like this one.
EXP Kodiak Special riser other II.JPG
EXP Kodiak Special grip shelf side.JPG
EXP Kodiak special limb wedges I.JPG
EXP Kodiak Special limb wedges II.JPG
These little wedges run all the way out to the tips:
EXP Kodiak special limb tip.JPG

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Re: Possible "One of a Kind Pre-1966 Bear Items"

Post by Wade Phillips » Tue Mar 09, 2010 2:22 pm

John - You are correct, Floyd was the previous owner.

And in your three guesses, you even mentioned the correct original owners name.

I like your possible one of a kind 1958 Kodiak Special with the alternating color, end to end, angled limb laminations.

The possible one of a kind that I have with end to end angled limb laminations is not nearly as eye catching becaue the end to end laminations are all maple and cut at less of an angle. This is a 1962 Kodiak Special marked EXP in gold above the length and weight.

It is a little hard to notice the angled laminations until you get pretty close.
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1962 KS End to End Limb Laminations 001.jpg
Last edited by Wade Phillips on Thu Mar 11, 2010 5:15 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Possible "One of a Kind Pre-1966 Bear Items"

Post by John D Kabisa » Wed Mar 10, 2010 1:01 am

Wade- I remember when your 1962 Kodiak special was up for sale.Very cool idea but must not have been very cost effective to mass produce do yo agree?
Also,as far as the finger-grooved K-4 of yours,as they say,even a blind squirrel finds a nut once in awhile.I got the Floyd Eccelston part right,but even though I'm not sure if Bob Meaker was a lefty,I'll say he was the original owner.
Do I win?

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Re: Possible "One of a Kind Pre-1966 Bear Items"

Post by Wade Phillips » Wed Mar 10, 2010 9:27 am

John D Kabisa wrote:... as far as the finger-grooved K-4 of yours,as they say,even a blind squirrel finds a nut once in awhile.I got the Floyd Eccelston part right,but even though I'm not sure if Bob Meaker was a lefty,I'll say he was the original owner.
Do I win?
John - OK, here is your official score so far for the quiz....

Plus 1 for Floyd being the original owner

Minus 1 for guessing 3 names, Fred Bear, Bob Meaker, Glenn St. Charles

Plus 1 for narrowing the 3 name to Meaker, which is correct

Minus 1 for saying it was a K-4, it is actaully a K-6

Soooo, you are now even and back to Zero ...

Don't you just love these quizzes John... especially the scoring methodology... :rolf:

You will be declared the winner, only if you can tell us the other very unique one-of-a-kind feature that Meaker's K-6 has...

You may have to put on your Razorhead Thinking Cap for this one....
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Re: Possible "One of a Kind Pre-1966 Bear Items"

Post by John D Kabisa » Wed Mar 10, 2010 10:15 am

Wade- Just when I thought I did good by guessing TWO questions correctly,you have to mention a minor detail such as me throwing three names out there for the original owner.I just really wanted to get this one right so I could get one of your cool prizes I've seen you give out.Now you're going toreally make me think.
Is the other one of a kind feature of this bow evident in the picture or do I need to use my imagination?

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Re: Possible "One of a Kind Pre-1966 Bear Items"

Post by Wade Phillips » Wed Mar 10, 2010 2:33 pm

John - You don't really want me to penalize you another point for giving you hint, do you?

You don't really need a hint to answer the question correctly.
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Re: Possible "One of a Kind Pre-1966 Bear Items"

Post by TimberlineX » Wed Mar 10, 2010 3:21 pm

Wade,

No arrow shelf?

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Re: Possible "One of a Kind Pre-1966 Bear Items"

Post by Wade Phillips » Wed Mar 10, 2010 5:47 pm

Bill,

That is a logical guess as no arrow shelf is visible in the photograph.

Actually, there is an arrow shelf on the other side of the bow as it is a left hand bow.
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Re: Possible "One of a Kind Pre-1966 Bear Items"

Post by John D Kabisa » Thu Mar 11, 2010 12:56 am

Bill(and Wade)-I was going to guess the no arrow shelf too but realized the bow was a lefty so it would be on the opposite side in Wade's picture.So Wade,do I get an extra point for NOT guessing the no arrow shelf thing? I have blown your picture up larger and looked it over and I am not seeing anything significantly odd...except.....maybe,just maybe....the seam on the leather grip is on the backside of the grip instead of the front(or is that something under the grip to hold it up).If so,it's a very deceiving picture and I should get another point for bad photography on your part.
Is there possibly an extra lamination on that aluminum layer?
If not,I need a clue.A really good clue.

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Re: Possible "One of a Kind Pre-1966 Bear Items"

Post by Wade Phillips » Thu Mar 11, 2010 6:00 am

John –

Sorry no extra point for NOT guessing the no arrow shelf thing. If anything it should be minus one point for suggesting that. :rolf: I clearly stated the bow was LH more than once in the post with the photograph of the 50 Kodiak.

Plus 1 point for noticing the leather seam.

Minus 1 point for suggesting it was a very deceiving picture and bad photography on my part. :rolf:

The leather seam you see is just an extra piece of leather that Meaker added to build up the grip, the seam for the leather grip itself is just around the shelf side near the back of the bow.

Plus 1 point for asking if there is an extra lamination on that aluminum layer.

Minus 1 point for not noticing there are a total of 4 alternating colored wood laminations visible on the aluminum, light, dark, light, dark. Normally there would be only one maple lamination on the aluminum.

Same photograph same size cut out when you double click on the original image.

Now, look again, you can clearly see the additional dark, light, dark laminations on the first light lamination on the aluminum. Actually there is also one additional light lamination on top, which is not visible in this image because the handle is turned too far.
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Re: Possible "One of a Kind Pre-1966 Bear Items"

Post by Wade Phillips » Thu Mar 11, 2010 6:06 am

John - After all the plus and minus, your score is back to Zero… so everyone is tied at Zero.

If you can find a mistake in the original photograph of Munger's 1950 Kodiak, you win... ;)

Boy, don't those extra belly laminations just jump out at you, now that you know they are there ???
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Re: Possible "One of a Kind Pre-1966 Bear Items"

Post by John D Kabisa » Thu Mar 11, 2010 9:14 am

Wade-At least I was right in guessing the extra laminations.I just couldn't compare Bob's bow to my aluminum lams as I have them on the top pegs of my bow rack behind some other bows and couldn't see them too good.But I was right.I feel like the red-headed stepchild here.Cut me some slack man.
Alright one thing I noticed wrong in your original picture is that your membership card says Nebraska Bowhunters with an "s" and the knife says Nebraska Bowhunter with no "s".That is WRONG!!
I win!! Yeee-haw.

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Re: Possible "One of a Kind Pre-1966 Bear Items"

Post by Wade Phillips » Thu Mar 11, 2010 2:03 pm

John - You have to feel like I cut you some slack in asking such an obvious question... Good catch on the missing "S".

Congratulations you have one point...

If you want to go into the bonus round and try to double up, tell me something else out of the norm in the photograph. I'll give you and everyone else a hint in advance, this answer has nothing to do with spelling.
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Re: Possible "One of a Kind Pre-1966 Bear Items"

Post by Stickbow98 » Thu Mar 11, 2010 11:51 pm

Well, being as there is a knife in the picture...I'll take a "stab" at it! :roll:

Is it the fact that there is no serial #/specs on the side where it usually is on a LEFT-handed bow? :o

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Re: Possible "One of a Kind Pre-1966 Bear Items"

Post by John D Kabisa » Fri Mar 12, 2010 12:47 am

Ron- I believe on a right-handed bow the specs would be on the side showing in Wade's picture.On a lefty they should be on the opposite side we can't see.

Wade- I have enlarged your picture by clicking on it and I am pulling out the rest of what's left of my hair.I can't see anything that looks odd to me.I'm thinking the woven glass looks a little thick but I figure it's from being blown up so large it accentuates(how's that for a big word.LOL) the thickness of the glass.I see possibly a little burled maple for the lamination but I don't believe that would be unreasonable.
At the moment,I am stumped.But it is late,I just got home from work,and I'm tired.Another clue would be nice.
Last edited by John D Kabisa on Fri Mar 12, 2010 1:43 am, edited 1 time in total.

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