Altering a 1960 Kodiak to be Like Fred Bear's Bows

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Wade Phillips
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Re: Altering a 1960 Kodiak to be Like Fred Bear's Bows

Post by Wade Phillips » Thu Dec 17, 2009 6:53 pm

Just put a couple dozen arrows through the cut down 1960 Kodiak. It shoots great.

Gee, now I may have to cut down the rest of my 1959 and 1960 Kodiaks...

OK....

Doc's business card says "Have Spray Gun Will Travel, Wire BowDoc, Seattle"

How about this one...
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Re: Altering a 1960 Kodiak to be Like Fred Bear's Bows

Post by shick » Thu Dec 17, 2009 8:15 pm

Wade, you made yourself a pretty fine project there. I, myself, am 'sawdust challenged', but between you and Donnie, a fellow could gain the confidence in making a bow fit the way it should. Thanks.

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Re: Altering a 1960 Kodiak to be Like Fred Bear's Bows

Post by Seneca Archer » Thu Dec 17, 2009 8:45 pm

LOL Wade too funny

However --Wire Paladin---what a great anti-hero he was...........

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Re: Altering a 1960 Kodiak to be Like Fred Bear's Bows

Post by Stickbow98 » Fri Dec 18, 2009 12:08 am

Think about it, Wade,

By the time you finished cutting all of the 59's & 60's you have.....You'd be up to your neck in sawdust and too damn TIRED to travel!! :lol:

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Re: Altering a 1960 Kodiak to be Like Fred Bear's Bows

Post by Wade Phillips » Fri Dec 18, 2009 7:20 am

Shick – If I wanted any work like this done correctly, I wouldn’t do it myself, I’d send it to the Doc.

Undoubtedly he has cut down the shelf on more bows than all of the rest of us have seen.

SA – As kids in the 1950s, we all thought Paladin was cool.

Ron – Is there any market for Brazilian Rosewood Sawdust? The wood itself is unbelievably expensive.

OK - Time to start on the coin side...

First removed the odd duck coin.

The mar below the coin nearly spans the entire width of the riser and is indented deeply into the wood. We'll have to sand a lot of wood off to remove this beauty mark.

2/3 down on the lower fade out of the riser are several deep pits in the wood. These beauty marks look like they were left when the riser unexpectedly met a rough patch of concrete.
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Last edited by Wade Phillips on Fri Dec 18, 2009 9:24 pm, edited 4 times in total.
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Re: Altering a 1960 Kodiak to be Like Fred Bear's Bows

Post by Wade Phillips » Fri Dec 18, 2009 8:02 am

Scrapped off the old finish using one of Nels Grumley's personal bow scrappers that he made and used while he was the head bowyer at Bear Archery (he left Bear in April 1948). In 2008, I was more than fortunate to acquire Nels bow making tools from his son, John Grumley. Nels made many of these tools himself. They are simple, functional, and still work as good as ever, although in my inexperienced and amateurish hands, it is questionable if they work at all.

After scrapping off the finish, sanded down the coin side and removed all the beauty marks. Still have a bit of shaping and sanding to do.

Removed so much stock on the flat side around the coin hole, that the coin hole may be a little shallow now. If the hole is too shallow, I may just grind off the back side of the coin a bit, rather then try to make the hole deeper and mess up the hole.
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Re: Altering a 1960 Kodiak to be Like Fred Bear's Bows

Post by seboomook » Fri Dec 18, 2009 8:16 am

How cool is that Wade, using Nels own tools!
Caught up too late, was going to suggest raising the grain on the dents with a wet rag and hot iron.
Looking really good, I think "old spot" is going to be lonely this year.
Brad

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Re: Altering a 1960 Kodiak to be Like Fred Bear's Bows

Post by Wade Phillips » Fri Dec 18, 2009 9:07 am

Brad -

Yes, you can actaully feel the electrically in Nels personal bow making tools. After Doc started his Restoration 101 thread, I started working on a few bows around here and starting using Nels tools as I really didn't have much for bow making tools of my own. I soon discovered, what few tools I had, didn't work as well as the tools Nels made. Figured Nels would approve of them being used.

Thanks for the wet rag and hot iron tip to raise the grain on those dents. The only thing I've ever read about working on old bows was Doc's wonderful Restoration 101. Doc may have covered that, I don't remember. But then, there are lots of things I don't remember that Doc had in his great tutorial.

Just wish we were still able to access all of Doc's insight and helpful tips.

"Old Spot" just came out of retirement for his 50th Birthday. At the end of the year, he will go back into retirement for the third time. Will probably still take him along on road trips just to get him out of the Arsenal, use him as a back up if needed, but mostly as good medicine for the tackle box (not that I'm superstitious).
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Re: Altering a 1960 Kodiak to be Like Fred Bear's Bows

Post by bowdoc » Fri Dec 18, 2009 9:13 am

Wade if you would be so kind as to show me or us actually a close up pic of that odd duck coin ??? I would like to say if that coin is the same type stamped german silver or nickle type coin as in some 1959 and 1960 Grizzly's ? that may NOT be an odd duck but the actual factory installed coin.I have listed in my ledger about 6-8 at least 1960 Kodiaks with the odd duck coin.
I know we've all had this debate several times about dating bear bows by the coins and it just don't work to good.However you know lots of guy's and myself included sometimes say copper coin 1960 was the early model because of the copper coin in 1959 and then aluminum coin was a later 1960 ??? Odd duck coin I like to call middle 1960.For some odd reason there are a far number of 1960's bear-ing that coin ??? I believe there is another TR member who owns a 1960 Kodiak bareing the same type coin ? maybe he will post a pic.

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Re: Altering a 1960 Kodiak to be Like Fred Bear's Bows

Post by Wade Phillips » Fri Dec 18, 2009 10:00 am

Doc - I meant "Odd Duck" in the sense that the coin is unusual or odd to find in a 1960 Kodiak.

Yes, I am certain it is the same Nickle coin found in many of the 1959 and 1960 Grizzly bows.

I have only owned two 1960 Kodiaks with the Nickle coins. Glad to hear that you have encountered some too, and that my two bows are not the only weirdos.

You know me well, I place no value whatsoever in dating bows by cosmetic items such as just the coins.

The only way to date any Kodiak accurately is by the riser shape, or form the bow was built on.

As I have said many times, I've owned more 1960 Kodiaks with copper coins than aluminum coins.

Your theory of early 1960 copper and late 1960 aluminum theory with nickle in the middle, may well be an accurate description of the progression of coins used throughout the 1960 production cycle.

As we both know, there could be exceptions to this when coins fell out and were replaced or when someone goofed up at the factory.
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Re: Altering a 1960 Kodiak to be Like Fred Bear's Bows

Post by Wade Phillips » Fri Dec 18, 2009 10:12 am

Forgot to post a photograph of the coin removed from the 1960 Kodiak...

It is laying on the Nickle coin glued to the display card.

The top side of the 1960 coin is darker because of the discolored finish. The back side is much lighter and looks like the Nickle coin flat on the card.

Note the loose copper coin is a lot darker than the one glued to the board.

Bottom Photograph, you can see, I'm still looking for a 1970-72 Nickle Silver coin. I have some extras of some of the others shown to trade.
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Re: Altering a 1960 Kodiak to be Like Fred Bear's Bows

Post by Wade Phillips » Fri Dec 18, 2009 10:23 am

Using Doc's Loctite 420 in the syringe method, the cracks on the back of the limbs are glued before sanding off the finish on the back.

Yes, Doc, I know, I'm messy with this stuff. Didn't get any on myself this time!!!

Will be Loctite-ing up these cracks for the next few days. As the Loctite is applied and allowed to dry for a day, then re-applied were needed, not much else will be happening with the bow for a few or maybe several days.
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Last edited by Wade Phillips on Fri Dec 18, 2009 11:48 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Altering a 1960 Kodiak to be Like Fred Bear's Bows

Post by bowdoc » Fri Dec 18, 2009 10:41 am

1963 to 1965 and a few 1966's are or lots of those years coins are actually nickle silver.Most 1963 to 1965-ish look like brass because of the yellowed finish but are nickle silver hummmmmmmmm ???? bd

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Re: Altering a 1960 Kodiak to be Like Fred Bear's Bows

Post by Danny Rowan » Fri Dec 18, 2009 11:33 am

Ha, found you guys. Good job Wade, that is gonna be a fine looking bow when ya finish her.

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Re: Altering a 1960 Kodiak to be Like Fred Bear's Bows

Post by Wade Phillips » Fri Dec 18, 2009 12:34 pm

Doc - I am sure no Bear coin expert, and know even less about metals.

Can you post a photograph of the 1963 to 72 raised bear coins, just two is all I'd like to see, a brass and a nickle silver that you mentioned.

Below is a brass at left, an aluminum at right, and a light looking brass in the center. From what you have said, I'm guessing the one in the center is really a nickle silver. It is in a 1963 Polar.
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Re: Altering a 1960 Kodiak to be Like Fred Bear's Bows

Post by Stickbow98 » Fri Dec 18, 2009 4:29 pm

Wade,

If this helps- Here's a pic I have of all the Bear coins/medallions from '59 up to and including the Signature model in '82.
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Re: Altering a 1960 Kodiak to be Like Fred Bear's Bows

Post by Grant Young » Mon Dec 28, 2009 1:29 pm

Wade- The only '60 I currently have is a light weight I gave to my son. I do have this Kadiak that I altered to my usual setup which is very much like Bear's. GY
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Re: Altering a 1960 Kodiak to be Like Fred Bear's Bows

Post by TimberlineX » Fri Feb 26, 2010 12:25 pm

Wade,

Fascinating thread!

Did you ever complete this bow project – complete the gluing, complete the reshaping and sanding and then finally re-finish the bow?

Inquiring minds (one of which is considering a similar project on a 1966 Kodiak in spite of a rocky history of woodworking) want to know.

Bill Krenz
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Re: Altering a 1960 Kodiak to be Like Fred Bear's Bows

Post by kurtbel5 » Fri Feb 26, 2010 12:56 pm

Hey Bill
I have seen quite a few restoration threads that start with " I am not very good with tools"
but with the help they get here, and a bit of extra elbow grease, by the end,
very few of them would be an embarrassment on mine or anyone else's rack.

I am the worst at documenting before and after pictures, but I think those are the best pictures to have. HINT HINT

Nice work Wade!!

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Re: Altering a 1960 Kodiak to be Like Fred Bear's Bows

Post by bowdoc » Sat Feb 27, 2010 8:51 am

hey thats right whats shaken Wade is it done bd

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